The Sandoval Child Abduction

If you look at Richard Ramirez’s 2008 appeal petition, you will see find counts related to someone called Thomas Sandoval in the original set of charges. Count 7 and Count 8 pertain to an attack on a child. The penal codes are as follows: 459 is burglary, 207(a) is kidnapping, 261(2) is forcible rape and 288(b) is lewd acts with a child.

The child was female; Thomas Sandoval is likely her father representing her. Detective Gil Carrillo has named the victim on podcasts but it won’t be revealed here because she has never come forward.

Halpin skipped Sandoval, going straight to counts 12, 13 and 14 – the Zazzara case – because the Sandovals were not available. Halpin claimed to have warned the Hernandezes already, and berated them for being unprepared for Zazzara. However, Daniel Hernandez said it was not formally on the record. Halpin then makes the excuse that court was adjourned before he had the chance, and that he had told them another way.

These may be hard to read, and you may need to view on desktop.

“I tried to put it on the record and the court had already adjourned.”

– Halpin’s excuse.

The cases were supposed to be tried chronologically. The Hernandezes complained that Halpin’s changes violated their client’s rights. Daniel Hernandez claimed that Halpin only told the clerk that they were skipping Sandoval, not the judge.

This wasn’t the first time Halpin had done this – he skipped witnesses on the Vincow case and went straight into Okazaki and Hernandez leaving the defence unprepared.

Daniel Hernandez’s complaint

Halpin then became personal. This was when he called the Hernandezes clowns.

And Judge Nelson threatened to have him held for contempt of court, but the defence’s motion to have more time to prepare for Zazzara was denied.

Considering the only physical evidence the prosecutor had for this Sandoval abduction was a shoeprint at a construction site in Glendale, it’s not surprising that the charge was eventually dropped. The defence team could easily demolish the girl’s eyewitness identification. Children were coached at the line-up and the crime reports would undoubtedly give a description that didn’t match Ramirez. It makes the story about dropping the cases to spare the children reliving their ordeal in a courtroom seem like another overdramatization – weaker cases are often dropped because they can damage the credibility of others.

The Avia print found at a construction site where the child was abandoned.

And as we’ve said many times, if Richard Ramirez truly was the suspect in these cases, why did the newspapers tell the public to be on the lookout for a blonde man of medium build and height?

On documentaries (one being the Netflix series), Carrillo and Frank Salerno explained that the child cases were dropped because they, and Halpin, thought it would be cruel to put the children on the witness stand. One of them described an emotional moment out of the courtroom where they made this agreement. Given the lack of evidence and Halpin’s stalling on bringing the Sandovals to the preliminary hearing, it makes this story sound like an invention. The truth is that these child cases would have collapsed under scrutiny and undermined the rest.

Dates

Another strange discrepancy is the date. This article says the abduction occurred on 20th March 1985. But the charges list says 17th March – the same night as the Dayle Okazaki and Tsai Lian Yu murders, which were themselves separate incidents, four miles apart. The child was abducted from Eagle Rock (some articles say Glassell Park), Los Angeles and found in Glendale at 03:00.

If this 17th March date isn’t just an error – and legal documents shouldn’t have glaring errors like this – are we expected to believe Ramirez was rampaging around three locations all on the same night? That seems preposterous.

Another curiosity is Carrillo’s constant reference to a child in Pico Rivera whose details seem to match the Sandoval child. However, Pico Rivera is a considerable distance from Eagle Rock. It could be a simple mistake, or it could refer to another child entirely. However, no newspapers report on a girl being kidnapped in Pico Rivera, only Montebello, Eagle Rock and then a boy was snatched in Monterey Park. Later abductions or attempts occurred in Rosemead, Highland Park (allegedly) and Arcadia (Anastasia from the Netflix documentary).

Incidentally, Ramirez was never charged with most of these child cases. Aside from the Sandoval child, the list of counts only contains that of Anastasia (counts 31 to 36), who is not named (it says “victim not alleged”). We can say her name because she has chosen to go public with her story – and you can read about that case here.

One final thing: you might have noticed that there are two 459 burglary codes with Thomas Sandoval being named twice. This is because it was believed that Ramirez had burglarized some of the abductee’s homes either before or during the abduction. This was also the accusation for the uncharged Monterey Park case. However, Halpin had no evidence to present for the Count 7 burglary at all, and skipped to Count 8. Why was Ramirez charged with robbing the Sandovals with no evidence?

In conclusion, there was no evidence except the circumstantial Avia shoeprint at a construction site that has no forensic link to Ramirez or even the child – the Avia impression could have come from a builder or, frankly, anyone. And now we know that Philip Halpin had no intention of presenting further evidence. He clearly hadn’t even told the family that they might be needed in court – they were out of state – and one could speculate he skipped their case to trip up the defence by moving onto Zazzara when they were unprepared. It is difficult to believe there was ever any intention of prosecuting Ramirez for the child abductions.

86 responses to “The Sandoval Child Abduction”

  1. It’s stunning what’s hidden in plain sight. There for all to see on ‘Plain Site’ and during the preliminaries.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. this case is seriously crazy! What case is like this?! Innocent until proven guilty but for them it’s the opposite, hidding important details should be illegal or something! This is not fair for Richard or the victims at all!

    Liked by 2 people

  3. This again is so interesting ! I ve often thought about that generous statement of Carillo and Salerno not to çall the child victims to court, because they wanted to spare the children to have to re live their ordeal they went through. Its rather like you write , these cases would have undermined other cases and then , just like a house of cards would have collapsed and ruined the whole case . That blonde guy on the foto , it was probably him. One of the kids was taken from a bench inside a school ..I can never imagine Richard would do something like that . The others taken from their bed …no.no..Not Richard ! Plus the time factor again in these cases ! Soo good that you write about all this , its soo annoying . And they ve even put it on the Netflix series . ..they should nt have done that !

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I m in a bad mood right now , grrr.. ..because I went to YouTube ten minutes ago , and there I ve repeately read a comment about Richard was busy with consuming porno magazines in his St.Quentin cell . Its always the same Person who writes this rubbish . Too bad !

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Is it that “Prepper” guy or someone called Jonathan? I always see them around.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. No ..its a woman , which has her own channel since ca 2 or 3 months . Incredible . Unbelievable . I ve thrown her from my You Tube account . But I find her comments on other channels . They should not write such crap . If I had a channel and someone wrote things like that , I d throw her from my channel . The other two you mention are unpleasant and hypocrits too. Unbelievable !

        Liked by 1 person

  5. And . What about your book , in Substack I ve read that you were drawing something for the cover. Can you make an up date to the book ? Like when could we buy it ? How is it called? I m curious. And I guess I m not the only one !

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Okay, so I am still working on both the cover and the final chapter. And I’m still proofreading. It’s a very tedious task because it’s so long (118,700+ words). It will probably be called Threads of Blood. And it will only cover half of the story (it will be 350k long otherwise).
      I want it out by the end of the year, but it depends how fast I can proofread.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Send some more to me, I am happy to help with proofreading.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. From the start again? 😬 That’s where I’m at!

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Absolutely. Send it all.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Oh , thats great ! I m sooo curious . About everything .. Can I mention it on You Tube or would you prefer not to do that ? I keep my fingers crossed for you and I hope we can read it soon.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. You can mention it anywhere once it’s done! I am still proofreading. It’s so long. KayCee and Jay have also been checking it

        Liked by 2 people

      6. You guys are going to love it.

        Liked by 2 people

  6. omg another book?!? Yaaay!!! Wait is it part 2 or am I missing something 😂

    Liked by 1 person

    1. It won’t be part two, but instead it’s a fiction story about a man who is accused of serial murder…

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Ahhh I see. But omg that sounds exciting as well! All the best on this book! I’m sure it was be amazing as your other book you wrote!

        Liked by 1 person

  7. Its a novel which is based on Richard.?! So its one book and not 4 books ( 4 parts ) as you had planned ? I already like the names of the main protagonists. Its such a good idea to write a book about this ! By the way there is a new video of that guy Tom Zenner and Kato ..they make an interview with Frank Salerno about Richard. ( awful , of course ) .

    Liked by 1 person

    1. It was only a matter of time before someone wheeled old Frank Salerno out 🙄

      Liked by 2 people

    2. That’s one to avoid, then. They messed the last one up so badly.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I ve also wondered about that often only one shoeprint was found ! And was the shoeprints of de Angelo different ? More traces of wearing ? What exactely was different ? And there was the one footprint found in the middle of a heatwave , I cant remember correctly . But this was also anormal.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. With De Angelo’s prints, you can see signs of wear. We each have a unique walk that’s reflected in how the sole treads are worn down. With De Angelo, you can see how the sole pattern gets more distorted where he puts more pressure. Someone else, wearing exactly the same shoe, would have a different wear pattern. In the Night Stalker case, there are no visible wear patterns on the prints. If you Google De Angelo’s prints you’ll see what I mean.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. And they mostly look like someone tried directly downwards in an unnatural way.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Yes. That’s very obvious.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. The book will only cover half of the story ? Then it might be an open end. Did you keep the names you mentioned some weeks ago ? You dont have to answere, its just my curiosity. Haha. But Richards case and life, its so tragic , once you know it you ll never forget it.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yeah I haven’t written part two yet. I’ve only completed a few chapters in that so it will have to come out next year.
      I kept the names, yes!
      I had to do this story because it’s another method of helping people understand what *possibly* happened. Sometimes fiction is easier to digest.
      Of course there is some artistic licence like inventing conversations that I can’t prove happened, stuff like that. But it’s all about victims saying one thing, then detectives telling the media something different.
      It tells the story of how he came to be a suspect in the first place.

      Liked by 2 people

  9. Oh , that sounds good , because then there will be more than 1 book still to come ! Yes , fiction often helps people to understand things better.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Just a stupid question… The Sandoval child was found at a construction side… The same construction side where later the Avia shoeprint was found? But wasn’t she released by her kidnapper from his car? Did he get out of the car with her? Or how did he step in the wet concrete?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. This is never explained. It’s rubbish evidence.

      Liked by 2 people

    2. This is a question we’ve asked ourselves many times. It’s never answered. Neither has how he managed to get all that cement out of those tiny grooves on the sole of his shoe.
      All the following shoe prints (at the crime scenes) had no ‘wear patterns‘. No nicks, grooves, worn patches, or hardened cement dried into the sole. It’s all out. Compare it to the shoe prints left by the Golden State Killer in flowerbeds and dust. You can see wear patterns. I think there was only one print left in the cement. Perhaps he parked by it and put a leg out of the car. Maybe he hopped. It’s never been explained.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. It’s pretty often only one print. But the one then usually is really good (maybe only a partial print, but with sharp lines). Regarding the wear patterns… I can clearly see Richard sitting at night in his hotel room and brushing his shoes way more carefully than his teeth… (yes, I am evil.. 😉 )

        Liked by 4 people

      2. Maybe he used his toothbrush…
        DiMeo mentioned a lack of wear pattern in her analysis, and she has a point. I suppose it would depend on how new the shoes were and how frequently they were worn.

        Liked by 3 people

      3. Didn’t his Stadia shoes look pretty worn out? But the Avia’s apparently were really good quality… like new after 6 month on the streets…

        Liked by 1 person

      4. The stadia shoes themselves look worn out but apparently made conveniently clear prints on the Abowath’s lino… 🙄

        Lets all pretend she didn’t testify that the killer was wearing boots

        Liked by 3 people

      5. Clean as a whistle. Boots? Heavy boots, kind of military style? Ones that took a while to lace up, apparently..
        Better not mention that.

        Liked by 2 people

      6. What I also don’t understand… How do you manage to leave not a single footprint in a room over and over full of blood, except from exactly one (ok, a half) perfect print in the middle of a comforter?

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Yeah it’s weird. The comforter is on the floor in one photo so it’s weird that he specifically stomped on that and nowhere else. Not even the windowsill after he left.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. The bed is full of blood, the floor is full of blood.. It’s almost impossible not to step into it… and to leave bloody shoe prints after that. I really don’t get it… He must have stepped into blood and then with one single step directly on the comforter, without stepping on anything else with his half bloody shoe…

        Liked by 2 people

      9. And a very pristine print, at that.

        Liked by 1 person

      10. Yeah, they were wrecked.

        Liked by 2 people

  11. And back to the book . Do you publish it with Emily Zola as author ? I think that s best . And do you know already how the cover could look like ? I thought it should be striking , then it gets most of attention. And how many pages does it have . Sorry if I m too curious .haha ..!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I’ll post as Venning because that’s my fiction writer name. Emily is for non-fiction.
      I am working on the cover this week!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Ahh , I see . I thought about how I would do it . And then I saw some very painted portraits of some iconic persons this afternoon . (Bowie, Hendrix , James Brown etc ) they were drawn in a foto realistic/expressionism style . That looked really fabulous ..especially due to the choice of colour , it was soo good , the colouring got my attention immediately.. I think Richard on the cover will garantee more people interested . But this is a Marketing thing ..its just my idea because people need to buy that book ! Haha LOL.. Never mind , and your last cover was so good, anyway , its not my business .

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Richard’s face brings traffic. That’s a certainty.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Yes , its complicated . He was shown as Playboy Cover model in You Tube . Or Prada Model working at MyDonalds…That not what I mean ..But probably its better to choose a more neutral Cover . This is a tragic case ..there s nothing funny to it .

        Liked by 2 people

      4. There will be an image that resembles Richard on the cover… At least that is my intention anyway.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. I have another question . Am I right that pentagrams were only found at 2 crimescenes ? And is it correct that one pentagram ( at the Pan s house ) was a upside down pentagram from the Vicca cult ? And I read in the book that pentagrams were found at 19 other crime scenes ?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yes just two.

      Liked by 1 person

  13. I had a discussion with AI about the Mei Leung case. I asked the AI about how exactely they knew that Richard had stayed in the 2 hotels Ellis and Mason Street and what Michael Burt had said to this . AI said that Michael Burt had said that in 2009 , after 24 years it is impossible to make a valid reconstruction and proove about where he was staying or not. . And that there is no connection between when he stayed at the 2 places , it doesnt mean anything . In general AI said that Michael Burt had good chances in this case because of the DNA doubts and because of the 2 suspect .Burt had said that it could have been anyone . I can not repeat it , but AI said exactely what I hoped it said . AI knew a lot about the DNA chaos , it knew also about the closed down laboratory . But AI said it was only 2010.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I’m glad it said that. But weirdly Michael Burt never made a comment in real life.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I was wondering about that, too. He didn’t comment, and neither did Richard.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Yes ! When I knew who Michael Burt was , and that he was involved quite much in this case.. I found it soo weird that nothing was heard from this man , I didnt understand it . But I thought maybe he is annoyed, and just wants to forget about everything . Or other reasons . To me its still weird.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Time goes by …and still I have questions . 1.Police found one or two of the abducted children somewhere on the streets , after the kidnapper had set them free , and the criminal had given them some clothes to wear. What happened to these clothes ? They were clothes from the suspect , if I m correct. Did they examine them for DNA traces ? And 2. question : I was thinking about that Julio El Rubio ..He vanished too , like some other people ? He would match the description of the Abowath case . What do you think ? I hope I dont bore you with the questions.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. I’ve only seen it mentioned that Anastasia Hronas was wearing items given her by the attacker. She was wearing socks and a jacket; presumably his.
        I have no idea what happened to those items.
        Yes, Julio is another person who just vanished. He matches the suspect (as described by Abowath) far more than Ramirez ever did.

        Liked by 2 people

  14. PS I still don t understand that Michael Burt made no comments…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. He’s probably just professional. A lawyer shouldn’t talk about his clients or details regarding their cases. The place to talk for him is in court.
      And the hotel in Ellis Street was given as address in a medical record. (I believe when he had broken off a needle in his arm.. but I’m not sure about that.. ??) “Pera’s files include a March 25, 1984, medical record on which Ramirez listed his address as 373 Ellis, the Coronado Hotel.”

      Click to access ccx.95-cALL.pdf

      Or did I get your questions wrong?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. No , you are right..and a good and professional attorney shouldnt talk in public about his own opinion. But anyway , I had a diskussion with AI , and I asked about that subject. And AI answered that Burt had made some statesments ! The statements were interesting ! I was positively surprised ! But can t repeat all this . But in the Mei Leung case AI seemes to be on our side ! It ssid somethings I had not expected. It eould hsve been so much better if this case had gone to trial.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Be careful with AI! If you discuss a lot with it, it “get’s to know you” and learns what you want to hear! Maybe that’s why it’s on “our side”. I don’t know much about AI, I’ve just read that , but maybe you should look up, if it applies to your AI too. There was even a case where AI supported a teenager to commit suicide.

        Liked by 3 people

      3. This is true. I messed around with it. It’s my little bitch now! I have multiple friends who now think they’re gifted geniuses because AI told them so!

        Liked by 3 people

      4. Hahaha! Why am I not surprised?

        Liked by 1 person

      5. I don’t use it, really, not for this. I understand what you’re saying, it thinks my recipe requests are inspired…and that’s as far as I’d trust it.

        Liked by 1 person

      6. I used AI only once, to write a job application. That worked quite well. Of course it sounded like AI, but it helped me to rewrite it in my own style. Another time I asked a simple question regarding gardening and it gave me a wrong answer. So I asked the same thing in a different way and got the correct answer on that question . Then I tried the original question again. Wrong (and contradicting) answer again, of course… Then I gave up…

        Liked by 1 person

      7. I’ve had it argue with me and call me delusional. And it was totally hallucinating and could not support its own claim.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Wow… I’m speechless…

        Liked by 1 person

      9. Burt did not make a public statement.

        Liked by 1 person

      10. I just tried to talk with Chatgpt about Richards case. It told me, that Dayle Okazaki was killed in August, that Solano helped to arrest Richard and that he held him until police arrived, that there was DNA (! in 1985 or 1989) evidence that tied Richard to some of the crimes and that a t-shirt and fingerprints were found in his home (appartment) and both tied him to some of the cases. I had to correct chatgpt every single time. The t shirt… Yes, it thinks that the t shirt played a role in the case, because media talked about his Jack Daniels shirt a lot, that he was wearing when he was arrested… So it “thought” that it must be important… That`s how AI works… unfortunately…

        Liked by 1 person

      11. ChatGPT has dropped acid tonight it seems…

        Side note: It gets really funny about me talking about public figures. I wrote a book about our former Speaker of the House and chatgpt does not like me talking about him at all and tries to shut me down. It’s so annoying.

        Liked by 1 person

      12. To me it apologized all the time. And promised to be more accurate. (Only to continue to tell me bs of course.) I thought it would alwas be kind of submissive…

        Liked by 1 person

      13. I hate that grovelling apology it gives “I understand. I will be more accurate next time.”

        Grok is also worse at times. It’s so rude. I made a post about that experience on here.

        Liked by 2 people

      14. I only talked to ChatGBT about this case once.
        That was about Launie Dempster after we had that preliminary hearing stuff.
        It thought she was an absolute bullshitter. Lol
        True enough, I think.
        I will get around to publishing that post in the new year.

        Liked by 1 person

      15. I feel like it’s really good if you properly train it first. Teach it to get a good response. Then it’s your pet…

        Liked by 2 people

      16. Thanks so much for the info about the medical report! I ve read about that broken needle in his arm…but now I understand how they could have known about the hotel..! As he gave it as adress . But Burt could have fought that off . Like staying in a hotel in Tenderloin doesnt mean this was the” reason” for doing that crime in Farrel Street. Plus AI said that DNA transfer could have been possible easily in this case . And that R. was not personally present at all at the crime scene !

        Liked by 1 person

      17. The fact that he gave this hotel as address doesn’t say anything. It was more than 2 weeks before Mei was murdered. That he knew the area maybe.. just like thousands of people who live there… I wouldn’t say anything about the DNA-match, if it wasn’t on a f***ing handkerchief right beside the trash cans. And only on that handkerchief! The cold case unit said that they tested a lot of items! They had worked for 5 years on that case before they found the DNA on the handkerchief…

        Liked by 2 people

      18. Oh, I found another interesting thing regarding the cold case unit and Mei’s case… Sorry guys, if I come up with another link… If it’s not ok, just delete it, but I’d like to know, if you found that too… It’s a pdf… Richard is mentioned on pg. 19.. But the whole thing is interesting imo. https://www.sfbos.org/ftp/uploadedfiles/bdsupvrs/committees/materials/PS120610_101443.pdf

        Liked by 2 people

      19. Thanks for the link. I hadn’t seen it before.

        Liked by 1 person

      20. It seems that solving some “high profile” cold cases committed by infamous serial killers helped to legitimate the further existence of the cold case unit.

        Liked by 2 people

      21. Yes! How convenient.

        Liked by 2 people

  15. Haha , this is really absurd . The last sentence in the newspaper article says something like this : ….and now there s proof that it was probably Ramirez. LOL.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Yes ..you all are right about AI. I was sooo furios at times, and then I stopped it ! But only in the Mei case it was neutral..it sounded reasonable . Like I wrote befor. . In general it was meeega aggressive ! It repeated, that in the end it were the hard glassclear physical evidents , glassclear — the fingerprints, the stolen items at Solano, plus ballistics . It sounded like it was fed by anti Richard freaks on Reddit !! Not a good idea in the end , I won t do that again.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Yes , that was my first thought ..it doesnt mean anything whether he stayed in these hotels or not . AI said that too. And it said that Burt had good chances in this case. Now he is forever connected with this , without out having the absolut truth ! That made me really feel bad .

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Yes I m evil , you write that they , the Cold Case Unit , tested SEVERAL items . Is it in the article from San Francisco Unit you ve sent ? I did not see this there..Or did you read about it somewhere else ? I think , just like you , if it hadnt been on a handkerchief near the trashbins I wouldnt think that much about it . But so ?

    Liked by 1 person

  19. hi, i wanted to read again the blog post about Mike (Richard’s cousin) but it says not available or something like that. could you please share the blog in which someone explained why the stories carrillo says about them aren’t true, i can’t find it please help me. i’d really appreciate it 🙂

    Like

    1. Weird! I’ll take a look and check the post settings.

      Like

  20. Yesterday I ve read about the Carol Kyle and Abowath cases again , in the book . And I came to the final conclusion that, in the Kyle case , the guy who did that was a random junkie and rapist , but not the ” famous Nightstalker “. Just some weeks ago I was concerned about the language he used . ( . Dont look at me or I ll cut your eyes out) , etc…Now , its weird ..I m not shocked about those words at all ! As I think that its just ” normal” under these circumstances for a rapist burglar to say this . ( You , Venning , said this too ). Some other things told me , it wasnt Richard . Same with the Abowath crime. Of course …I had forgotten that Mrs .A. had said that the criminal who did this , had a concave , a recessed breast . He raped her, and she saw him ! All the other things ..rape kit negative etc..blond hair teeth etc. ..Mrs A.was led to change the description ..200 %. , so this is a sort of paradigm for the whole case . I liked how you explained that she probably was asked by Yarborough , whether she could recall gaps in his teeth. Soo great this ! ONE question : the projectiles had that red primer , right ? In which other cases were red primer ? To me red orimer found is actually obsolete because Richard didnt do the Abowath crime anyway . And it s not important what they say about red primer. To me it s quite clear he didnt do the Bell / Lang crime too .( in spite of pentagrams and same handcuffs key ) because to organize it with connection to Kyle afterwards is just b.s. for someone like Richard . You must be a true super -mega – criminal for planning and doing this . Its ridiculuos. Ohh.. why didnt he win the appeals ..?!

    Like

    1. P.S. The casings of the bullets had the red primer . ( not the projectiles ) .

      Like

  21. And another question I asked Yes I m evil . Maybe someone knows this . Did they examine other items apart from the handkerchief for DNA in the Mei case ?

    Like

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