The Murder of Mei Leung

This is a long, double post by VenningB and Jay – split into two sections: the history of the incident (Venning) and the DNA aspect (Jay).

This blog is primarily focused on the Los Angeles trial. Because the alleged Night Stalker crimes in San Francisco (the Pan Incident) and Orange County (the Carns/Erickson Incident) never went to trial, it has proved impossible to examine them in depth.

As discussed in this post, Richard Ramirez has had various other San Francisco murders informally connected with his name: Edward Wildgans (shot) Mary and Christina Caldwell (stabbed) Masataka Kobayashi (bludgeoned, his neck broken, possibly with the butt of a gun). Ramirez is not the prime suspect for Kobayashi.

One particular San Francisco case that was not tied to Ramirez at the time was the murder of nine-year-old Mei “Linda” Leung. Mei was found raped, stabbed and strangled with her blouse in the basement of a residential hotel in San Francisco’s Tenderloin district on 10th April 1984.

Habeas Corpus – Convenient Timing

Richard Ramirez’s lawyers had worked hard on his Federal Writ of Habeas Corpus, which was submitted to be read by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in 2008. It was formally accepted into the long queue in March 2009. As demonstrated throughout this blog, it was very thorough and was not just focused on constitutional violations as most Habeas Corpus appeals are – it presented extensive evidence of “Actual Innocence” and sought to overturn all thirteen murder convictions in Los Angeles. As such, it seems most convenient that suddenly, just seven months after the Habeas Corpus was accepted, DNA evidence purported to tie Ramirez to the murder of Leung. Should the Ninth Circuit have overturned the L.A. convictions, the San Francisco District Attorney (then Kamala Harris) would have moved to charge Ramirez with Leung, thus keeping him locked up for good.

Murder: Fact or Fiction?

The story of the violent death of Mei Leung seems to have been embellished with time, in the same way that all the other Night Stalker suspects had been changed to fit him. The most recent newspaper stories of Leung’s murder tell a story of Mei returning from a friend’s with her younger brother Michael, eight. As they ascended the stairs to their apartment, Mei dropped a dollar bill down the stairwell into the basement. Michael carried on. Mei went down to retrieve it and never reached home. Michael was sent to find his sister – but he discovered her body, hanging from a spigot. This article from the New York Post interviews Inspectors Ron Schneider and Mike Mullane, the two detectives who were called to the scene. Schneider describes Leung’s hanging position as “like Christ on the cross” – her head was drooped down and her feet just inches from the ground. An anonymous expert in the occult was also interviewed, explaining Mei’s position was that of a “ritual killing” of a Satanist in the “symbolizing of a desecration.” With Ramirez’s reputation, this is easy to believe – only it is not what was said in the papers at the time.

765 O’Farrell Street

First, we must discuss the layout of the building, a “residential hotel”. The basement is not a basement as we know it. It was not subterranean. It was street level with access via two garages, one door, and another main entrance up some external steps that led to the lobby. This lobby also gave access to the ‘basement’ and there was also access via the maze of backyards and alleyways at the rear of the building. The ‘basement’ was essentially a corridor that led from front to back and contained large bins for the many residents overcrowded into 33 tiny dwellings in the building above.

San Francisco Examiner, 11th April 1984

Two families actually lived on the basement level, and it was one of them who found Mei Leung’s body, not her little brother. It is likely that Mei and Michael began their ascent from this level. It was on the first floor that the manager, Alice Kwan, said she heard two children arguing over whether to take the elevator or the stairs to the fourth floor (the very top). Michael went up and left his sister to ascend on foot. Back in 1984, there was no mention of a dollar bill fluttering into the basement way below. After half an hour (it was between 7 and 7:50pm), Mei’s mother Yuk Yin asked Michael to find Mei, who she presumed was playing in the building. When Michael reached the first floor, he was greeted by the police who told him to go straight back up – the ‘basement’ was now a crime scene.

The Position of the Body

In the San Francisco Chronicle, a 50-year-old man who lived on the ‘basement’ level with his two pre-school age daughters claims his children found Mei Leung’s body a few feet from their door. The area in which she was found is referred to as a basement garage.

San Francisco Chronicle, 12th April 1984

On 5th May 1984, the San Francisco Examiner stated that she was “wedged” in some overhead pipes.

Later that year, the same paper repeated that she had been wedged in “a maze of overhead pipes” in an attempt to hide her body. Seeing as she had been stabbed, it is likely that blood dripping from above gave her location away, and although this is never stated something must have made the unlucky finders look upwards.

3rd September 1984

Nothing is mentioned about Mei Leung being found hanging like Jesus from a spigot by her blouse, although the blouse was tied around her neck. The coroner does not state the exact cause of death but she had also been stabbed multiple times in the back. There was nothing to suggest this horrific crime was connected with the occult and given that America was in the midst of the ‘Satanic Panic‘, even the slightest whiff of Satanism would have sent the press into overdrive. Yet there was nothing. It seems to be a 2009 invention to support the DNA ‘hit’ for Richard Ramirez.

The rest of Mei Leung’s clothes had been dumped in the back yard. These must have been taken for serological testing.

Alice Kwan is again quoted, saying that the residents no longer want to throw garbage away – this means the ‘basement’ and its bins were in frequent use by all the families. The killer must have been very quick and therefore very familiar with the building and how to escape. Nobody reported a child screaming, so she must have been silenced somehow, or lured by someone she trusted.

The Suspect

In April, straight after the murder, Inspectors Mullane and Schneider stated that there were no suspects. However, by May 1984, a description was given in the San Francisco Examiner: a white male, about 5’10”, medium build, clean-shaven, brown hair, side-parted and slightly over his ears, who – according to an article in a 2009 edition of Central City Extra magazine – was seen in the elevator. It is not stated who reported this.

This building was exclusively inhabited by Chinese and Vietnamese families, so a white man would have stood out, but the suspect given in the above articles sounds so ordinary, with no distinguishing features and most importantly, nothing like tall, dark, curly-haired Latino, Richard Ramirez.

Below is the composite sketch of the suspect from Central City Extra.

In 2009, when the DNA story broke, detectives claimed that Ramirez had lived in a residential hotel on the street behind O’Farrell Street: Ellis Street. Their evidence was supposedly a medical record giving that address, as well as Mason Street which runs perpendicular to O’Farrell and Ellis. This of course means nothing – the Tenderloin is a densely populated area with a high crime rate. Even if they could prove he once resided there, it is not enough to prove murder and it seems this is just like the other cases: a nebulous suspect and a story that has been sensationalised and embellished with time.

One must also ask, if the cold case detectives were so sure Ramirez was at the scene because of a DNA match – and they knew he stayed in the area – why were they appealing for informants to provide information about his whereabouts in 1984? Was that necessary? This brings us to the second part of the post: DNA evidence.


Part 2: DNA

DNA typing, or profiling, has become the most powerful tool in the arsenal of forensic science. It can convict the guilty, exonerate the innocent, and identify suspects and victims. It is considered (by the public) to be infallible, with most juries expecting the presentation of DNA evidence in court.

Juries comprise a cross-section of the public, laymen, most without scientific knowledge. They rely on prosecutors and defenders to give them the correct information to enable them to reach a verdict, hopefully, the correct one.
Programmes such as CSI and Law and Order tend to quickly solve a case using forensics, but the reality is somewhat different. Contrary to these shows and public perception, DNA analysis is open to misinterpretation, a fact that investigators don’t always emphasise to a jury.

DNA Testing – Then

In 1986, the first criminal case using DNA to get a conviction occurred in the UK. One wonders why the same did not happen in the Night Stalker case, considering the serology testing they did seemingly excluded Ramirez, as shown in the Abowath incident, where the PGM marker obtained from a semen sample collected from the victim was not a match to him. None of the LA rape victims were proven to have any serology that matched the accused. In the incidents where unidentified blood (Bennett and Cannon) was present and that unknown blood came from neither the victim nor Richard, a DNA test, even in its infancy, would have been valuable

In the 80s, DNA testing and the results were a much more simplistic affair; it either matched or it didn’t. Even a non-expert can readily understand what that means.
Things have changed.


A Brave New World?

With the advancement of technology, DNA testing has become extremely sensitive. Great! Yes and no. We constantly shed DNA when touching anything, coughing, sneezing, talking, or biting an apple. These traces and mixtures have always been present at crime scenes; however, with the lower sensitivity of previous years, they were unlikely to have been detected. That is no longer the case. Today, they can generate a profile from just a few skin cells, enabling forensic science to solve a more extensive array of crimes. It can also cause complications when analysing ever more complex mixtures, especially where contamination from improperly collected and stored evidence is concerned. Or when a result yields more than one profile.

Cold Case – 2009

With impeccable timing and convenience (Ramirez’s habeas appeal having been filed just months before), San Francisco’s cold case unit, consisting of just two officers, Holly Pera and Joseph Toomey, announced the preliminary findings that would link Ramirez to the murder of Mei Leung.
The cold case unit, formed two years previously in 2007, had looked at cases that could be added to Ramirez’s rap sheet. Her determination to solve this crime was her main goal when the cold case unit came into being.

Homicide Inspector Pera had been a new police officer at the time of Mei’s death, serving the neighbourhood where the crime occurred; the horror of which had never left her.

CBS News 23rd October 2009

Although the cold case unit had been formed in 2007, one DNA expert with the San Francisco crime lab, Matthew Gabriel, said in a San Francisco Examiner news report on 22nd October 2009 that he had been working on the case for five years and with great difficulty managed to generate a profile from an undisclosed piece of evidence collected in 1984. That evidence was later explained as a cloth or a handkerchief, reportedly discovered in the basement of 765 O’Farrell Street, either by the rubbish bins or near the stairs.

We’ve been working on this case for approximately five years now,” said Gabriel, in the news report.

San Francisco Examiner, 22nd October 2009

Why they were working on the case in 2004, and yet Pera says they didn’t start until 2007, isn’t explained. 2004 is the date of one of Ramirez’s appeals; it is also the date that the Californian Proposition 69 was voted into legislation, whereby all convicted felons had to supply a DNA sample to be loaded into a database. A notorious criminal, such as Richard Ramirez, would most certainly been made to provide a sample at that time.

In 1984, DNA typing was yet to be the standard practice we see today, and the items collected from the crime scene were unlikely to have followed what is now routine protocol. How the items were collected – and stored – is paramount. We have not been told how or where these 25-year-old items were stored, under what conditions, and whether or not they were in a controlled temperature. The probability of all the evidence being stored in boxes piled on shelves with many others consigned to “unsolved” is a likely scenario. As we learn more about the science of DNA, we also discover the most vulnerable part of any evidence collection begins at the crime scene, where contamination is its weakest link, especially in a situation where a discarded cloth was discovered in the vicinity of many people’s garbage.

No photographs of the evidence and no details of the storage conditions have been released.

A “cold hit” from the CODIS database matched Ramirez; Holly Pera duly served a warrant on him to collect a buccal swab. Richard was compliant, and neither he nor his lawyer, Michael Burt, commented.

SFPD asked anyone who may have seen Ramirez in the area of O’Farrell Street in 1984 to get in touch. DNA was insufficient; they apparently needed eyewitnesses, even though the eyewitnesses in 1984 had described someone other than Ramirez.

What they were hoping for in 2009 is anyone’s guess.


A Second Suspect – 2012 to 2016

In 2012, SFPD got a second hit from the database, from what turned out to be a mixed sample on the handkerchief. It went unreported, unsurprisingly, as the last thing anyone wanted was their science to be challenged. They had got a hit on the one man they wanted; nothing else mattered, and the 2012 hit remained hidden for four more years. Richard died in 2013, so it is safe to assume that no one disclosed this information to him or his lawyers. The incompetent Hernandez duo no longer represented Richard; his new lawyers would have known precisely what to do with the latest news.

“On Monday, The Post exclusively reported that a “second suspect” had been tied to the case around 2012 after police got a DNA match from a handkerchief left at the crime scene, according to SFPD Homicide Inspector John Miller.”

New York Post 16th March 2016

SFPD disclosed that the second suspect was known to them; he was a convicted felon (hence his DNA profile in the database), but they refused to name him, saying he had been a juvenile at the time of the murder of Mei Leung. Juvenile suggests a young person, perhaps under 18, a youth; it does not suggest a child. Had the second suspect been a child in 1984, that is the word they would have used.

In sudden haste to explain this new revelation, and in doing so undermined its original scientific findings, SFPD declared the second sample flawed and that it should never have been uploaded to the CODIS system. How convenient.

Because of the new suspect, Mei’s case had remained open, although it had been pinned on Ramirez, without him being charged or tried. The word DNA is usually enough to satisfy the public. However, more was needed to satisfy DNA expert Rockne Harmon, former prosecutor and consultant on Mei’s case.
He dismissed SFPD’s explanation as “gibberish”.

New York Post 16th March 2016

From the New York Post:

“Multiple sources told The Post that authorities now know the man’s identity because — while a juvenile at the time of Mei’s murder — he went on to commit other felony crimes. That enabled California lab tech Cherisse Boland to get a “cold hit” on him after repeatedly running the evidence through CODIS, the FBI-maintained forensic DNA database.”

New York Post 16th March 2016

Rockne Harmon, who also worked on the OJ Simpson case, had this to say in the same news report:

“The handkerchief had stains in several places that were tested,” said former prosecutor and DNA expert Rockne Harmon, who reviewed the Leung case while doing consulting work for the San Francisco District Attorney’s Office in 2009.
“The stain that produced the hit was a mixture of three people, two different semen sources. One of the sources matched Ramirez, and the other source linked the second male to the handkerchief by the stairs,” Harmon told The Post.
“It’s significant because it connects the two sources to the body,” added Harmon.”

New York Post 16th March 2016

He went on to say, in an excerpt taken from the New York Post:


“The “co-existence” of the other man’s DNA on the cloth “suggests a connection between Ramirez, the second male and the victim associated with her death,” Harmon said, urging authorities to come forward with any new information they have.
“Only a thorough, intense investigation to ascertain the truth about the presence of his [DNA] in such a sinister context will satisfy public safety interests. Anything less will not do so.”

New York Post 16th March 2016

The San Francisco Police Department said nothing and still has not released the second suspect’s name. He is protected for reasons unknown.


The Problem With Mixed Samples

The information in this section has been taken from DNA Mixtures: A Forensic Science Explainer | NIST

Even the most experienced DNA analysts can have difficulty separating the profiles within mixed samples. For these reasons

  • How many people contributed DNA to the mixture? More contributors make a mixture more complex and more challenging to interpret.
  • How much DNA did each person contribute? Even if a mixture contains plenty of DNA, one or several people might have contributed only a tiny amount. The lower those amounts, the more complex the mixture.
  • How degraded is the DNA? DNA degrades over time and with exposure to the elements. This can also increase the complexity.

Currently, there are no established protocols for determining how to analyse mixes; different labs follow different rules when confronted with mixed samples. It helps to understand how DNA typing is done by looking at how interpretations are determined. Forensic scientists only analyse part of the genetic sequence when generating a DNA profile. Instead, they look at roughly 40 short segments of DNA that vary from person to person. Those variations are called alleles; the key to knowing a person’s DNA profile is knowing which alleles they have.

To discover this, scientists make millions of copies of the alleles to amplify their genetic material. Then it’s processed and sorted, ending up as peaks on a chart, and those peaks tell the analyst which alleles are present, and that is how they determine someone’s DNA profile.

A mixed sample would look something like this.

http://www.nist.gov

A profile of a low-level DNA mixture from a crime scene (top) and the DNA profile taken from a suspect. When the peaks in the evidence profile are small, they can introduce uncertainty. Did a false peak “drop in” at position A? Did a peak “drop out” at position B? Those factors should be assured before examining the reference profile. A single profile would have two peaks at one location; looking at the top image, we can see multiple peaks at each locus, whereby it’s safe to assume more than one person contributed to the mix.

These images are a reference point; they are NOT profiles taken from the crime scene or Ramirez and the second suspect. 

In an analysis of a mixed sample, alleles from each contributor appear on the chart; picking them apart is problematic because they have made MILLIONS of copies of each allele. Now, they are all together in a test tube.

In teasing them apart, they cannot, with certainty, be sure which allele belongs to whom. It is like contemplating a colossal bowl of letters from a million Scrabble games and trying to form a coherent sentence, or maybe the word “suspect”, with your eyes closed. One mistake could cost someone their freedom, or indeed their life. 

To combat that, scientists developed software to help, and a system where they calculate probabilities is used. It is a highly complex and complicated matter. For more information, please read the link highlighted above.


Uncharged – Again.

Richard Ramirez was never formally charged or taken to trial over the murder of Mei Leung; the then DA, Kamala Harris, declined to arrest and charge him, stating that as he was already on death row, she did not want to prolong his life by another trial and the ensuing appeals. It was far easier to say it was him and let the science go unchallenged by his new, competent defence lawyers.
Without a doubt, had the petition rendered his LA convictions unsound, which we have demonstrated throughout this blog, it would have been a different story; they would have charged him.


From Crime Scene to Courtroom

The principles of evidence collection at any incident are many, with priority given to:

  • Contamination
  • Degredation
  • Chain of custody

Today, crime scene investigators know how vital these fundamental principles are; they learn to work in a sterile environment, keep unwarranted people away from the scene, and properly dry samples and evidence before bagging them. In 1984, as the DNA expert Mathew Gabriel said, they did not have the knowledge they do now. They must also ensure correct preservation, enabling the defence lawyers to conduct independent testing.

Chain of custody is vital, and each and every person who ever came into contact with any evidence must be logged and its journey every step of the way from the incident scene to the lab, thus avoiding the risk of contamination or (God forbid) tampering. A piece of cloth from a filthy basement floor, deposited near some garbage bins would already be contaminated enough.

That leaves the question what happened to her clothes? As Venning has mentioned in the section above, they were piled up in the yard. Mei was found partially clothed, surely they had stored these evidence exhibits in the same way the cloth had been? Did they not test those too? If not, why not?

Any improperly kept and maintained samples may be degraded after twenty-five years of being stored in boxes in a “cold case room”, as we might assume. Information has yet to be released to the public to suggest otherwise, and they went to some lengths to conceal the appearance of another DNA profile for some years. Had it not been “leaked,” it is doubtful anyone would have known.

San Francisco Police Department, to this day, still have not released the name of the second suspect; one imagines they never will. Their reasons for refusing to accept a second profile are doubtful. They claim the additional profile was “flawed”, which adds a reasonable doubt to the validity of either sample. If they question the results of one person’s forensics, they should surely question the validity of both suspects’ profiles. Or if the science was as infallible as they claimed, where Richard’s DNA was concerned it should have been independently tested.

DNA never was and never will be 100% conclusive; it is a powerful tool, but a tool that judges prefer to have backed up by further evidence. Evidence they did not have.


Mei

One cannot fail to be moved on viewing the face of Mei Leung staring out from the news reports. Did she receive the justice she deserved? When her family were informed of the link to Ramirez, they were reported to have said they were “grateful” by SFPD.

But was this honest and actual justice? Or was her tragic death used as an insurance policy? An insurance policy against the eventuality that the Supreme Court may have granted the order for relief. Without full transparency detailing the name of the second suspect and the details questioning the science attributed to his DNA profile, are we really seeing light shed on the case?

This brings us back to 1985 when, after his arrest, SFPD scratched around to tie him to as many.”unsolveds” as possible, but they did not peg him for the murder of Mei Leung.

It feels like yet another curtain has been drawn across, a veil not to be lifted.

For further reading on the uses and abuses of DNA within the criminal justice system, I highly recommend the book “Inside the Cell: The Dark Side of Forensic DNA” by Erin E Murphy.

~ Jay ~ & -VenningB-

30/08/2023

Buy our book HERE!

100 responses to “The Murder of Mei Leung”

  1. You guys are so brave for trying to explain the logic behind this; honestly, my brain disconnected at the “handkerchief” part.

    Whether it was one rapist or several, how do they all leave DNA traces on what I assume was the girl’s handkerchief? How did they decide to go for the handerkchief and not her clothes, or did they throw her clothes and not the handkerchief—I am so confused.

    Aside from the fact that they can’t seem to agree on who found the body and in what position, if the DNA doesn’t belong to one person only, how does your first thought redirect you to “that one guy who once gave a nearby address,” when you have an entire building and an entire neighborhood who saw that girl daily, several times a day, and who most likely hosted the pedophile? Because you got a hit in the database from deteriorated evidence?

    And why is the Ramirez hit a perfect match but the second hit a mistake, it’s the same piece of cloth. Or are we to believe that people’s DNAs deteriorate differently?

    I’ve said it before, if Ramirez raped and brutalized and hung Mei Leung (or hid her behind the pipes), why did he act completely different with Anastasia Hronas? The other kids Ramirez allegedly molested made it out alive.

    Considering the basement wasn’t a real basement, I’m not so sure that’s where the murder and rape took place. The criminal must have been either insanely lucky that no one else was around, or both he and the little girl were a quiet as ever (which is unlikely considering the brutality of the event), or simply it was one of the residents doing all this in their home and then hiding the body in the basement.

    The police and the DAs were too busy trying to pretend they were concerned and driven by justice to actually address the fact that this was a complicated neighborhood with complicated people, and non-white communities don’t receive the same protection and interest as white communities. They hit two birds with one stone with this “hit” so they Ramirez’s appeal would have lower chances of success and they can once again say they solved a crime.

    I’m sure at this point if someone had overdosed in that building they would have somehow found the evidence that Ramirez had been selling drugs in there so it’s his fault.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Yep, you summed it all up perfectly. I find it just so weird that two people would transfer semen to a girl’s handkerchief. It’s implausible. It has to be a false positive or even…planted, dare I say it? Of course this sounds like Ramirez apologism, but the whole thing is just weird. As is the fact they tried to make it sound occult in 2009, when in 1984, during a ‘satanic panic’ they made no such connection. Nothing fits. I’d also put money on a resident, otherwise how does one do that undetected? The back alley leads to a maze of other alleys where hundreds of people lived!

      Liked by 2 people

    2. They set up that cold case unit in 2007 for the purpose of pegging Ramirez for more crimes, and so they were actively seeking it; in fact they’d been working on it since 2004/5, when his dna was uploaded into Codis.
      I think it’s telling that they tried to cover up the second hit, and when the news broke 4 years later, they waffle on about flawed samples. A mixed sample isn’t good enough, and mixed dna on a discarded handkerchief near the bins, is certainly not enough to tie him 100% to this crime. Millions upon millions of alleles all swimming round together in a test tube; they cannot be sure which allele belongs to which suspect. And when the dna expert who worked as a consultant on Mei’s case is saying SFPD’s explanation is “gibberish”, you know it’s not clear cut.
      I find it odd that in 1985, when they were desperately trying to find other crimes to pin on him, they did not peg him for Mei.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. It’s clear to me that SFPD wanted the last word. They already believe they’re the ones who “caught” the Night Stalker because they had the name. With this stunt they probably wanted to slap it in the LA detectives’ faces that, “ha, if he stays locked up for good, it’s not thanks to you.”

        Liked by 3 people

      2. Yeah that’s a plausible thought process for SFPD. Falzon already insists he solved it all.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. I like your perception.

        Liked by 1 person

    3. This comment is just to let you know that our book is out!

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  2. Hüseyin Sethanoglu Avatar
    Hüseyin Sethanoglu

    Richard Ramirez has 100% something to do with this case. He himself has abused a number of children. I personally believe that he has done far more bad things than we can imagine.

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  3. The second DNA belonged to a 14 year old named Gary, he is in jail right now for rape. RR didn’t kill this little girl, he didn’t kill children.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. How did you find out his name?

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      1. I’d be interested in that, too. I had read this person was in for firearms offences, but the name wasn’t released.

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  4. Really ..its so bizarr that they did not accuse Richard in 1985 !! For me its so obvious , that they did not have sufficient evidence AT ALL to do so ! And after that it seemed that they desperately tried to find a logical way how to show HOW it could have been ! This is my 3. reading ..and only now I notice that the cellar Was not a cellar but a sort of ..Passage. …So its no dark hidden cellar but an easy accesssble Passway…weird weird weird….In my opinion it could have been someone who lived there. The place where they found her was not were the crime took place …And the handkerchief …this is very weird too. Really ..how can it happen that 2 different DNA ftom 2 different semen happen to appear on a little handkerchief …Did they examine the clothes which were found on DNA ? Because if they have Not done so ..there is definitely very much wrong ! I just can t believe it. I mean ..Richard was stigmatised from then on as a cruel sexual murderer ..and more than half of the World believed it !? For me its Sounds like the police didnt have a Clue what to do…Not in 1984 and Not in 2004 and also Not afterwards.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. There are so many unanswered questions about this case! Yes, its a walkway really and out the back is a maze of passageways. Would Richard not have looked very obvious as well, a tall Latino man entering a building full of Chinese and Vietnamese people? Everyone would notice him; most people agree he was very striking looking. People always mention his appearance.

      We couldn’t find any information on the other clothes or where they were stored or why they were in a different place from the handkerchief. The list of mysteries is long. You can tell that the police force in San Francisco were desperate to pin other cases on him. Who would doubt that he had done it?!

      Liked by 2 people

    2. What I find most interesting is that the cold case unit was formed specifically to tie Ramirez to this crime, and they had, in fact, been trying to extract DNA from the rediscovered evidence for two years prior to that. There are too many question marks (yet again) and not enough answers. No, he wasn’t pegged for this, and no, the murder of poor Mei wasn’t described as Satanic until they needed to reenforce it was him. Strange really, when America was drowning in Satan and Satanic stories – Satanic Panic was everywhere.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. Anyway…did they not make DNA Tests of ALL her clothes ..? I can not believe all this …police work ……

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  6. Concerning the handkerchief…two guys used the same handkerchief ..one after the other ..? And this was found near the garbage …and then the handkerchief was stored for 20 years ?And Richard …did nt he say that it was not him ??

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    1. This is what we are expected to believe, yes. Although some officials were claiming that only the other mystery sample was the false positive and Richard’s was legitimate. That’s unfair. They were mixed in one stain! Both can be a false positive.
      Then Carrillo was interviewed in 2009 insisting Richard didn’t ever have an accomplice so it’s impossible. However, there’s no way of knowing this. For the LA crimes, Steve Strong said many of them could have involved two people.

      Richard never made a statement about it. Nor did his attorney Michael Burt.

      Liked by 2 people

    2. I always thought they maybe had sex with the same woman without protection (maybe a prostitute?) and then one of them used the handkerchief to clean himself and threw it away at the garbage bins. And later Mei’s blood got on it. But of course I don’t know how the stains looked like and if my idea is even possible, considering the actual evidence.

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      1. There are different possibilities to consider, I think the main point is that the sample was mixed, and if it’s flawed for one suspect, it’s flawed for both. It took them 5 years to create a profile, only then to try and cover up the second one. Whatever SFPD’s explanation, an expert who was a consultant on the case said it was “gibberish” and a full investigation was needed.
        Again, nothing is clear, and I doubt they want it to be. Another mess.

        Liked by 3 people

      2. Yes I m still trying to find out what happened there. The two guys must have been there ? One of them Richard ? That would have been bad enough..
        Or it was transfer DNA …

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      3. big question that !

        Like

      4. DNA can very easily be transferred from one place to another without an individual ever setting foot in the place where their DNA is found. For instance, let’s say I was in a building and touched the door knob or light switch. Then, another individual comes to the same place after me and touches the same things I touched. Now my DNA is on their fingers. They then go to another location and touch the door knob/light switch, transferring my DNA from their fingers to a place I was never at. Say a crime occurs at said place. Law enforcement dusts for prints, take them to the lab, and develop a profile that has my fingerprints, not those of the individual who was actually present at the crime scene. This is called indirect or secondary DNA transfer. Basically, it means that my DNA was picked up at a location and transferred somewhere else by someone other than me. Some people are “good shedders,”meaning their DNA is deposited in easily and in higher quantities than someone who is a “bad shedder.” If you are a good shedder, then your DNA can easily be transferred by someone else to a location you were never at. And if the individual that transferred your DNA is a bad shedder, they can easily deposit your DNA at a scene, resulting in a mixed sample or they may even deposit your DNA and not any of their own. Multiple studies have been done demonstrating that this is not a rare occurrence but often occurs. DNA interpretation is complex and involves more variables than the ones I mentioned about indirect transfer. There are numerous points in which a DNA sample can be contaminated, and the integrity of the sample can be compromised. Some factors that affect the sample are how it was collected, transferred, and stored. Of course, there are many other variables involved. If you are interested in forensic DNA, I recommend a book called “Inside the Cell: The Dark Side of Forensic DNA.” I know Jay used it as a resource when writing about Mei Leung. I read it and it was very interesting.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Yes , thanks . Some weeks ago I ve spent 3 hours on DNS research . And I was more tranquil when I read about DNA transfer .
        Maybe you can write about this once more As a topic ? Cause many of us imagine 50 different szenarios how 2 guys leave their DNA on one little handkerchief . ..!

        Like

      6. If I remember it correctly it couldn’t be proven that the second suspect was in San Francisco at the time of the crime. And since it’s possible that the flawed DNA sample led to a false positive hit, they can’t charge him with the crime. Yes, ok, but did he know Richard? Were they friends or maybe relatives? If he didn’t live in SF, was he from LA, from El Paso? Was he a relative of one of Richards friends? You don’t commit such a crime with someone you don’t know very well.

        Like

      7. I don’t believe they’ve conclusively proved Ramirez’s whereabouts, either. They said there was medical records indicating he was in the area, however SFPD were asking for people to come forward with information and put a phone number in the SF Chronicle. A flawed/mixed sample leads to inconclusive evidence.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. He is so impossible to pin to a location.

        Liked by 2 people

      9. Because he was on the move constantly.

        Like

      10. Yes I know. It was March
        25, 1984, where medical records listed his
        address as 373 Ellis, the Coronado Hotel. 2 weeks before the murder of Mei. And
        then again at the Bristol Hotel on Mason Street, August 13th, 1985, more than a year later. Nothing regarding April 1984. If you would do a research how many convicted murderers, child molesters and rapists lived in the area arould Mei’s home at some point between March 1984 and August 1985, you probably would be shocked.

        Liked by 2 people

      11. I remember your timeline that used to come up on a Google search. It’s harder to find now, I think because people who shared it are gradually being terminated on Tumblr.

        Liked by 1 person

      12. I never saw it when it was created, I wish I had.

        Like

      13. That s right .I dont understand the whole case .And when the 2.guy could not be prooved to have been in S.F .at the time ? The thought of Richard beeing involved in this is really awful . Maybe the DNA findings were placed …but why would they do something like that .

        Like

      14. It can’t be proven Richard was in San Francisco during that time period either.

        Liked by 1 person

  7. Well ..I remember Frank Salerno said that they assume that there are 2 people doing the crimes ..And his fsther also said that he d never could do something on his own. And Donna Myers said : Not in a thousand years yuo could think he ‘ do something like that. But shortly aftrrwards the daughter of Myers would make sure that she got the reward ..Donna Myers herself did not want to do this…Back to the handkerchief…maybe manipulated .Obviusly there was a big interest on making him responsible for the murder ….alone ..! Im afraid I still dont understand 100 % how the 2 DNA s get on the hsndkerchief ..even when one Was nearly too Contamined…This means Richard and a then about 14 year old went there ..saw the Kids…and and..and. Then both grabed the handkerchief snd used it one after the other . Is it not important that there were 2 Proofs of DNA ? No matter if one is better than the other .I mean…if one Was say 20 years old and the other was 50 years old …then I might find more sense in it.

    .

    Like

    1. Yeah, he thought there were two killers working the same area. I’m still inclined to agree with his original opinion, because we know those shoes weren’t unique! Also for the Kneiding attack, originally the Glendale Police Department captain said he believed there were two suspects. He changed his mind after the L.A. County Sheriffs Department ‘stole’ their case.

      And I agree with everything else you said. It’s all so nonsensical and unclear. To me, it’s not conclusive enough evidence.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. I was reading this earlier. It’s shocking how many cases of wrongful conviction have been made with misuse of DNA. There are many more.
      One quote said it had made police lazy. I agree.
      https://www.thejusticegap.com/misuse-dna-evidence-led-miscarriages-justice/

      Liked by 1 person

  8. And you have to question why no one heard Mei Leung screaming. This could suggest that she was killed by someone she knew. It’s a possiblility she was dragged into someone’s apartment, sexually attacked, stabbed and strangled inside, and then dumped outside. There were residents on the floor where she was found who heard nothing.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/night-stalker-case-shows-dna-testing-still-lags/article_111420d4-8b43-54b5-b6ea-d7d7f65e66ef.html

    Came across this article. The testing lab was understaffed. I actually found plenty of articles criticizing San Francisco crime labs for different reasons.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Oh, thanks for the link. Very interesting!

      Like

    2. As an afterthought, after re reading that, it was published in 2010, and yet there’s no mention of the second suspect in the mixed sample. They knew it was a mixed/flawed sample in 2009, although the second hit didn’t come until 2012, and even then they covered it up until 2016. This whole case annoys the hell out of me. LASD, of course, ascertain he ‘definitely’ worked alone, I mean, they have to, that’s their whole case. But IF there’s two samples (and we’re not dealing with major flaws because of the mixed alleles), it either undermines what LASD are saying, or it undermines SFPD’s science. Nothing is clear or straightforward. Not in 1985 and not now; nothing they say is trustworthy.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Strange how adamant they are in not releasing his name – even when they were recommended to. They are looking for excuses “there’s no proof he was in SF at the time of crime” and even “the evidence was mixed”. They kept the 2nd hit hidden for so long, too.

        Liked by 4 people

      2. I suspect that deep down, they know it was a flawed sample and the more they mention that other suspect, the weaker the evidence looks.

        Liked by 3 people

      3. The double standard is staggering.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. Yes right from the beginning I had the feeling that the evidence situation is a weak point for them….But then they decided to stick to their Story for whatever reason. They dont give the name of the 2.suspect because this would stir everything up…This is my theory .

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I agree. Because technically, if there’s another mystery suspect, the case is still open. And their D.A. and former detectives were definitely satisfied to conclude the case with ‘the Night Stalker did it.’

      Like

  11. I have a theory that he died in June of 2007. And everyone sets up this ‘Cold case’ saying he did it. But they did not add the case against him and said he was already on death row. Because they didn’t want to prolong his life. (But because he had already been executed  and cannot go to court), so everyone can use him as a suspect in this case and other cases. I haven’t been aware of his existence since 2007. And I think the San Quentin photo said he took it on June 15, 2007. It was a cover-up and that was the day to remember his cremation (which was said to be cremated if no relatives came to pick up the body within a week ‘in 2013’). So he could be secretly executed in early June 2007. and was forbidden from visiting his relatives. Including his wife, who is now missing somewhere. Mei’s case may just be the scene of a secret legal battle between two groups over the death penalty in California.🧐I would like to know if anyone has any information on his ‘actual movements or appeals’ after 2007 (which is not a letter or identification that officials can forge.)

    Like

    1. Hi, Ramirez was filing status updates for his petitions (both the 2008 and 2009) until 20th May 2013. The last status update is attachment 46 to the main 2008 document, with a further update anticipated to be filed on 16th August 2013, he died before that happened. He was required to do these updates by the Supreme Court.
      The last photo of Ramirez I have seen was taken not long before he died, so 2013.

      Liked by 1 person

  12. what’s interesting to me about this case is with mei clothes they found 2 DNA but one matched Richard’s and it was conclusive but oh the other suspect false positive! That’s makes no sense wouldn’t it be double false positive how can one be positive and the other false positive? Who was the other guy and why they hidding him?! This makes me very angry?! Poor Richard and poor Mei.

    Like

  13. csmutny06cae8b36d Avatar
    csmutny06cae8b36d

    Ok, so you are figuring that RR was possibly not Mei’s killer, I am curious to know if you believe Rosie? I am of the opinion that RR wouldn’t hurt a child. What do you all think?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. This was always the “elephant in the room”, so to speak, before we started looking in to it. As it stands, I think that this is nowhere near as clear cut as people think, for the reasons we’ve given in the post. We found how they twisted the original story to fit their “Satanic” narrative, and the flawed, mixed DNA sample is also suspect.
      SFPD were neither open nor honest, hiding the second DNA hit for 4 years. Why? If a DNA expert says their explanation is “gibberish”, I think you can safely say there is something not quite right.

      As for Rosie, there is too much to be said there. Do I believe her? I don’t know, what I do know is that if it were me, I would not be writing letters to my alleged abuser, not would I ask fangirls what information they would like in a book that is meant to be about this harrowing situation. Nor would I tell fangirls/hybristos what to put on a Dias de los Muertos altar in memory of Richard. But that’s me.
      I don’t know, is my honest answer.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. If we look at the child cases in the LA crimes, we can see how the original descriptions of the suspect from the child victims were disregarded, and then they were coached on who to pick at the line up. I think that says it all, really. In March 85, the cops were saying a blonde, short guy. Funny how that all changed.

      Liked by 1 person

    3. I don’t want to say I don’t believe Rosie as it’s not my place to do so, and I don’t know them, or their monumentally fucked up family. I’m saddened by her allegations because I know everyone will believe her over our evidence that Richard was not a paedophile.

      Some people revel in Ramirez’s alleged evil so will lap it up. I remember on Twitter, girls dwelled far too often on his alleged paedophilia as if they were aroused by it. A lot of the ‘TCC community’ ruminate over Richard’s women to an obsessive degree because they want to imagine him in a sexual scenario and Rosie’s horrifying allegations this will only exacerbate their perversion. Moreover, she’s sort of being exploited for their entertainment, which, on the flipside, she has courted, by taking writing requests from them. She’s giving them more filth and horror to add to ‘Ramirez lore’ and the media is already saturated in it.

      I will say that a red flag for me is the fact she said that Gil Carrillo’s “kiddie cases” and the Netflix documentary was the first time her father truly believed her. Now I know families can be in denial and shame the abuse victim as a liar (I’ve read awful stories where mothers believed a perv stepdad over their own kids) but Richard was a convicted serial killer and Rosie’s father STILL didn’t believe her until he heard lies from the mouth of Gil and his coached victims (Anastasia). It was lies about Richard and children that was the catalyst for her coming out with all this stuff.

      Another thing is that she has said things that make Richard look like he was the bad anomaly in the family and she saw another side to him than the one people think they know. I think this is an odd thing to say when the whole family is messed up and her own father was a junkie who was in and out of prison and contributed to Richard’s damage. A few of his family try to pretend they were all normal and Richard just turned out wrong but we know that’s not true. I worry about her damaging that man even further, just so a bunch of murder fetishists can turn themselves on by the darkest passages in her book. It just muddies the waters. I know she has the right to tell her story but I do wish they’d fuck off and let the man rest in peace.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Yes, to all of that!
        She IS feeding the perversions of the TCC, without a doubt. Posting her gratuitous excerpts for their delight, and then posting about how the rain makes her think of him. They all lap it up like the strange weirdos they are, convincing themselves that she’s relating some kind of love story, rather than a case of incestuous molestation.
        It is SO sick.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. As IF they were all normal apart from Richard. Rosie was in care cos of her messed up parents.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. And watching Shelly on that other documentary last night, it seems like her upbringing was equally dysfunctional. I think one of her sisters might also have gone into care.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. The bit where she “imagines” her parents paid for his lawyers! Hahahahaa!

        Liked by 1 person

  14. csmutny06cae8b36d Avatar
    csmutny06cae8b36d

    Very detailed answer, and thank you for taking the time to reply. Yes, let the man RIP.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. This is definitely not relevant to this post, but after mindlessly scrolling social media I came across a tid bit of information that had me rolling my eyes. Richard’s ex, Eva O, was in the process of interviewing for Peacock/NBC about the NS. Not one to believe everything on the internet I looked up her personal Instagram page and found it to be true. Why can they just not let him be dead and find other ways to make money?! It’s pathetic, disgusting, and extremely hypocritical! I doubt that anything positive will be said about him just more material to feed the fantasies of hybrisophiles and fangirls.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yep, that’s the one we were contacted about! Until the producer reverse-ferreted when I told her it was a miscarriage of justice. She deleted a message, unfollowed my instagram…coward. Now Gil’s on it, Eva and a bunch of “my brother’s friend’s cousin’s uncle knew him” types that the producer found on Reddit.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Bunch of cowards! Did they even bother to read a word of your blog before contacting you? Honestly, if the views on platforms like YouTube are any indicator, interest in this topic seems to be fading. The 2021 Netflix documentary and all the TikTok edits reignited some discussion, but then the same tired content kept being churned out, leaving people bored and confused.

        I seriously doubt that whatever Peacock/NBC comes out with will be any different, especially with ‘Cocky Carrillo’ involved. I can just picture him sitting by the phone, desperate for anyone to contact him about this case so he can keep up his fake charade. Get a real job or a life! It really makes you wonder where all these people would be today if Richard had competent lawyers and they had actually won the case?

        I hope all the people that leech off of Richard and the innocent victims get exactly what they deserve!

        Liked by 1 person

      2. At first, I assumed the producer herself was interested, but then maybe got shut down by executives. Now I think they were just hunting down any old fucker on the internet who seemed knowledgeable about Ramirez, then backtracked when I stated our purpose. It probably didn’t help that I asked how her series will differ from the formulaic “dad tied him to a tombstone”, “bad cousin Mike”, “satanic” Richard narrative. She was desperate for an immediate Zoom call, left her number and shit…and just ghosted us!

        Have you noticed a slew of AI generated shorts and mini ‘documentaries’ about Richard have appeared on YouTube over the last few weeks?

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Reeks of desperation.

        I’d rather be lobotomized than watch any of that crap tbh

        Like

      4. Same! Same old.. you can tick off the stuff they’ll say.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. It’s probably their pathetic attempt at trying to promote their sh*t show.

        Like

      6. They would get far better ratings and views if they approached the case from a different perspective, bringing on actual qualified experts and discussing the case in detail without any dramatization or theatrics. I wouldn’t mind that at all because, at the very least, they would be trying to educate people rather than just sensationalizing the story.

        It doesn’t have to be solely about the case, either. They could explore how forensic science is not infallible, discuss the realities and flaws within the justice system, expose law enforcement corruption, delve into the effects of the Satanic Panic, and so on. While it might not entertain the hybristos/fangirls, as I mentioned, it would provide an educational experience and shed light on so many critical issues. They can do all of this without disrespecting victims or their families and without retraumatizing people or outright claiming that he is innocent. The corruption and violations seen in this case are still ongoing in this century, and it won’t stop until people open their eyes and confront the cold, hard truth.

        Liked by 2 people

      7. I hoped they would make one episode about the crimes, the police etc. Then have a second episode where it looks into the evidence and questions. Pure fantasy and unlikely I know, but I thought as someone who claimed to be “fascinated” by our perspective, NBC might have had different ideas. No such luck!

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Wasn’t it NBC who did that ridiculous “Manhunt” film in 89? (I thought it was them)

        Liked by 1 person

      9. Yes, this is how someone should attempt to do it, we have had so much of Gil and his theories, and the “script” he won’t deviate from. Groupies…girlfriends, all of it.
        I imagine the problem is that if they highlight the many misdemeanours in this very high profile case, it may (and it should) shake people’s faith in the “justice” system. This case has is as much of a farce today as it was in 85, and as long as certain people are being paid to tell their story, it will continue.

        Liked by 1 person

      10. I agree that the high-profile nature of the case makes it more challenging to discuss. However, if done right, a miniseries or documentary about it could be an excellent way to showcase all the corruption and violations that still persist. I’ve watched other outstanding documentaries and shows that thoroughly examine and discuss the very issues you’ve mentioned on this blog. So it is possible, but I doubt that anyone has the courage to take on such an undertaking.

        Liked by 1 person

      11. One day it will happen, it must happen. Probably not for years.. but ONE day.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. Yeah, they appear to be going down the groupie/girlfriend road, and were scouting about for anyone who may have known him. It will be a load of “He looked funny at my neighbour’s uncle’s postman’s dog”.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. LMAO they are really just grasping at straws to find new “material” to work with. You’ve probably mentioned this elsewhere, but exactly how long did Salerno and Carrillo work on this case?

        Like

      2. If we go from the killing of Dayle Okazaki on March 17th until Richard’s capture on 31st August, around 5 months (in the field). Obviously there’s work after the arrest as well. And then a lifetime of grifting for Gil, it makes a great pension fund.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. So only around six months was spent in the field and yet some state that they dedicated their entire life and career to this case.

        Like

      4. Yeah, but his life is dedicated to talking about it, he’s been doing that ever since. This is Carrillo’s only high profile case (I think), and he said that without it, he’d be just another retired cop. Richard is his life-blood – still. And he feeds the machine, keeps it all oiled up with salacious stories and things that he’s embellished, as all story-tellers do.

        Liked by 1 person

  16. basementtalentedbe1ddc699c Avatar
    basementtalentedbe1ddc699c

    Didn’t Doreen Lioy divorce Richard after finding out that he was the so-called killer of Mei Leung? It’s crazy that somehow that was the last straw for her despite everything else far worse. I always wonder what truly caused Doreen to divorce Richard who she was so fervently infatuated by. Could it be the fact that she found out he spoke to other women?

    Like

    1. That is the commonly held opinion, that she left him after the DNA connection, but that doesn’t appear to be quite true. For whatever reason, it seems that it was Richard that pushed her away in the end. Doreen didn’t say why, but she did say that she believed it was to do with his “illness”, although she didn’t elaborate. She was hurt by whatever happened between them in the end, and as they were not officially divorced, she was still his next of kin and was the one who his remains were released to.

      Liked by 1 person

  17. Cherisse Boland? Just google her name + scandal and you will find things like this: “The San Francisco police crime-lab technician and a supervisor implicated in alleged misconduct that could jeopardize hundreds of criminal cases failed a DNA proficiency exam last year and were barred from processing evidence, documents show.”

    https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Technician-boss-in-S-F-police-lab-scandal-6169230.php

    Like

    1. Yes, I read about that. It’s just so bad.

      Liked by 2 people

  18. basementtalentedbe1ddc699c Avatar
    basementtalentedbe1ddc699c

    In the new Richard Ramirez doc on Peacock, Richard’s niece Rosie talks about her being molestested by Richard. Also in some other interview she describes it. As much as i dont want it to be true, could it be so that Richard was in fact a child molester? And so the case with Mei Leung and Anastasia Horan…

    Like

    1. It’s something I’d need to look into further before making a judgement. Even if it was true, it doesn’t change my opinion on the others. Anastasia’s attacker supposedly had a native American tattoo and was short. She was only pulled into the case because of Gil Carrillo’s fixation on child molesters.
      As for Mei Leung, there was something narcissistic of Rosie to insert herself into that horrific murder by trying to connect the dates. Is she implying that she aged out of Richard’s paedophilic range, so he lost his mind and killed a child? If so, it’s on brand for certain members of their family.

      One problem with Rosie is her claims that he lived with her for five or six years. Strangely, other people are also claiming he lived with them and that he was homeless when he was not with these other people. So immediately there is a hole in her story. That is not to say that he didn’t have the opportunity to do these things. He did travel around a lot and he did stay with his brother occasionally. But lived there? No, that’s a Ramirez family lie, trying to cover up the fact they didn’t help him enough. His friends said he lived in cars and motels and stank like a tramp as far back as 1978. I think he spent more time in San Francisco in the timescale Rosie gives. She also gives a different reason why she didn’t tell anyone in a recent video with some strange ‘pastor’ guy. She’s got to keep her story straight.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Poor Richie. It hurts my heart that he went through all of that.

        Like

    2. This is something that we can never get to the bottom of, for obvious reasons. To weigh up the information we really should look at the bigger picture, I will try and break it down in a way that makes sense. The earliest child abductions (Feb/March 85) were committed by a guy with blondish hair, who was around 5ft 9, as given out by law enforcement to the media in March of that year. Officer Lou Gallegos told the LA Times that ALL the children had described the suspect independently, that also includes one adult witness. In June the appearance of the child abductor was changed to fit Ramirez. Hronas, did say her attacker was dark haired, but far older and shorter than Richard, plus he had a tattoo on his arm, which was described as “Native American”.
      The next thing to consider is how those children were coached to choose Ramirez at the line up, Their own suspect descriptions swept aside. These facts are documented, and we have shown this in many of our articles. The charges were dropped, although they’ve been pinned on him.
      Next we must talk about Mei, and as you have commented on this post, I am going to assume you’ve read it, and not just taken in what that documentary said. In a nutshell, the DNA sample was a mixed, flawed one, the identity of the second suspect hidden, and brushed away with excuses. In doing so they undermined their own science. DNA is damning, no one is denying it, but with this case, it was not a clear cut as we have been led to believe. More evidence would have been needed to get this conviction; that’s why the police were asking for people to come forward with information regarding Richard’s whereabouts at the time. It looks like no one did. Contrary to popular belief, a mixed DNA sample that was NOT near the body, but found near the garbage bins, isn’t enough, more evidence was needed, although it does look bad for him. We have addressed the issue as clearly as we are able to. It is another case where the story changed between the discovery of Mei’s body in 1984 and the discovery of DNA in 2009. Again the suspect’s appearance was drastically changed. He was not charged with this crime, either, ostensibly because DA Kamala Harris said she didn’t want any more appeals if he fought it in court.

      In considering the Leung case, you must also look at the timing and what was happening. Richard’s 2008/2009 appeals were heading to the Ninth Circuit, and the worst fear of the prosecutors in the LA trial, was that the incompetence of the lawyers, and also the new evidence might end up with Ramirez being granted relief. Halpin and Yolcheson always knew how shaky the convictions were due to the incompetent defence counsel, coupled with weak and mainly circumstantial evidence. Arturo and Daniel Hernandez were under sanctions in 1991 due to their appalling show in LA. By hitting Ramirez with a charge (Mei Leung) that wasn’t contained in his appeals, it guaranteed Ramirez would not get relief, nor have his death penalties commuted. As you can see, it is so much more complicated that you might imagine.

      As for Rosie and her allegations, there is nothing to say, really. The timelines appear changed from when we first heard of it 3 years ago, and there has been too much public bickering between family members. The impression is a deeply messed up family. They should sort this out between themselves, instead of involving the world. I lost interest a long time ago, once I saw Rosie ask the Ramirez fandom what they would like to see in her book, and then giving another pointers at to what to place on a Day of the Dead altar to honour him. Whatever happened, I can’t make a judgement.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Did you notice on the Peacock documentary, they kept zooming into the white piece of material near her clothes? It looks more like a sock. And we know the documentary isn’t to be trusted because they didn’t even show the correct composite sketch when talking about Okazaki/Hernandez and Gil Carrillo was on it lying about what was in her statement. Sorry Gil. Time to stop. You were exposed a few years ago …

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Yeah, that wasn’t the “handkerchief” that had the evidence on it, again they deliberately misled, either by design or incompetence. We know the clothes were found in another location, not near the bins. That documentary did not do the research, it relied on stories, and then showed the wrong images to back up what people were saying. Slack.

        Like

    3. There’s absolutely no evidence that Richard harmed any children. That’s all sensationalized garbage. Anastasia’s original description did not match Richard, nor did the suspect in Mei’s case. Vennings and Jay have done an excellent job discussing these issues in articles on the blog. I would refer you to those for further details.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. basementtalentedbe1ddc699c Avatar
        basementtalentedbe1ddc699c

        I totally agree, thanks

        Like

    4. When I first heard Rosie tell her story, I did consider what if shes telling the truth? Then, I read the habeas corpus documents and discovered that her timeline didn’t add up. We know that Richard spent the majority of 1977 in the custody of Texas Youth Council. While we haven’t come across documents stating how long he was there, it’s likely he stayed there until he was close to or had actually turned 18. Several people, including his mom, said he moved to California in 1978-79. As Vennings stated, there are statements from friends/acquaintances that place him living in other places with certain people or living in hotels/homeless during the time period Rosie alleges he lived with her family. We also know Richard had a severe drug addiction. While not concrete evidence, we know that during that time period, Richard was pretty much constantly trying to figure out how to get his next high. He could barely feed or take care of himself. I doubt Rosie was on Richard’s mind. I also consider several things: Rosie makes allegations against a dead man. Why didn’t she come forward with this information while Richard was alive? I also find it interesting that she didn’t say anything until Mercedes died. Does Rosie have anything to gain by speaking out ? Absolutely. Making these allegations in a public forum gains her attention, and $. Has Rosie ever done anything to help victims of sexual abuse ? Has she done anything to benefit anyone but herself? As far as I know, she hasn’t. Everything she seems to do regarding the allegations benefits her in some way. If she accused anyone else of abusing her, no one would care much about her story. However, if she blames it on Richard, many people will want to hear her story, and she can gain financially. I’m not dismissing her allegations of being sexually abused, merely questioning who she places the blame on. There seems to have been a lot of shady characters in and out of her parents’ home when she was a kid. Is it possible that one of these individuals abused her?

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      1. Rosie must have told Mercedes in the early 1990s. On the documentary the other day, she said Mercedes didn’t believe her after her mother found some letter about it and told her. According to burial records, in 1995, someone matching her mother’s name was buried in the family plot next to Julian Sr and where Mercedes now lies. So Rosie’s comment didn’t make sense when she said she hoped Mei’s death convinced her mother and grandma. How would 2009 DNA convince a woman who died aged 41, fourteen years earlier?! It also suggests she wasn’t speaking to Mercedes otherwise she would know whether it convinced her.
        We also know that even Julian Jr didn’t believe her. She said he changed his mind after watching Netflix, Anastasia Hronas and Gil’s abduction claims in 2021. So even Mei didn’t convince them of her claims. She says her mother suspected something because she moved him from her bedroom but conveniently can’t support her because she’s dead!
        Edited to add that I find it interesting that all the other people who Richard stayed with in this period had their own children (the Greggs, Patricia’s sister and Cynthia Melendez) who are yet to accuse him of anything. He babysat these children too.

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      2. My inside source doesn’t specify when Rosie told Mercedes about the allegations, but it came across as though she was suggesting Rosie hadn’t said anything to Mercedes until Richard had died. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what she said to me but that’s how it came across.

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  19. As I know from my own research and mainly from this blog there is also the possibility of DNA being trsnsferred ….I find it soo bad how they only told the public in 2012 that they had this 2. suspect , and that Richard did not know about thsy when he died .

    Liked by 1 person

  20. And they put forward the wrong images and the psychoanalysis was based on inventions by Carrillo and Carlo!

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Nope nothing suggested it was him or anyone that remotely resembled him in 1984.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. I agree that it was probably someone who lived in the building. It would also be too risky to do this in a place where people are constantly in and out and where children played in the corridors. This crime is very sad.

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  23. I agree. I think that whoever killed Mei knew the layout of the building well. I sometimes wonder if it was someone that lived in the building?

    Liked by 1 person

  24. mysticpolicef616ca1b1a Avatar
    mysticpolicef616ca1b1a

    Bonjour à vous tous,

    j’écris dans ma langue pour plus de clarté et de suivis dans mes pensées.

    j’ai lus, je pense, tout votre blog qui est extrêmement complet bravo pour le travail effectué.

    j’ai néanmoins une seule question qui me taraude depuis un temps… Si tout ce que vous mettez dans ce blog est vrai, et que RR est innocent, comment se fait il qu’il soit resté 28 ans en prison sans rien dire, comment sa famille ou même Doreen n’ont rien pu faire… Cela me semble incompréhensible…. Donnez moi vos impressions svp

    Marianne

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hello and thanks for your comment!
      We do not know if he was genuinely innocent and we will probably never know. However, we do know there was “reasonable doubt” for every single crime, sometimes multiple reasonable doubts. We know that there was police misconduct and a biased judge. The negative evidence – in a fair world and with a better lawyer – should have resulted in acquittal.

      Sometimes, it’s hard for us to understand why Richard never explicitly screamed for his innocence, but he was cognitively impaired and mentally ill, so was unable to think like a rational person. We also don’t know what went on behind the scenes that made him reluctant to say anything.

      However, he did tell one of his psychiatrists that there was no evidence he was at the crime scenes. This is perfectly true, but the psychiatrist didn’t believe him. He did also tell the TV reporter, Mike Watkiss, that he was “railroaded” but Mike didn’t let him speak.

      We speculate that Richard felt powerless against the system and just embraced the Night Stalker persona for a while. Doreen did write to a few news publications, but nobody really listened to her. The public would have seen her as a deluded groupie, not someone to be taken seriously. His family seemed clueless and too poor to pay for him to have a good lawyer which is how he ended up with a bad defence team in the first place.

      His only option was to wait for the appeals process which is notorioulsy tortuous and lengthy. The crime scene evidence was never properly reviewed because his appeals never reached the hands of the judges on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, so he died waiting for evidentiary hearings.

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      1. mysticpolicef616ca1b1a Avatar
        mysticpolicef616ca1b1a

        quelle triste histoire . Je compatis sincèrement… Jusqu’à présent j’étais plutôt de l’autre côté à penser qu’il était coupable j’avais même une ébauche de MO. J’ai cependant lu une interview de lui pour un bouquin français sur les tueurs en série dans lequel il disait avoir donné l’image que les gens voulaient voir de lui.
        continuez à faire ce que vous faites c’est formidable…

        Liked by 1 person

      2. I understand how it is difficult to believe it all. When people first look at the case, the prosecution’s arguments do seem “overwhelming”. Then as you dismantle every case, you discover the inventions, exaggerations and evidence that had the potential to exonerate him.

        People struggle to believe that police could be corrupt, and the legal system is flawed. And a lot of people struggle to accept that Richard had mental disorders and disabilities because for decades, he’s been shown to be an arrogant “bad boy”.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. You’re not alone, most think he’s guilty and that’s because they don’t have all the facts, and most don’t want to contemplate that they’ve been manipulated to believe that the judicial system delivers “justice”.
        Yes, he did say that he had no intention of people seeing him “down”.
        We will definitely keep going, we are nothing if not dedicated. lol

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    2. Hi and welcome.
      The question of “innocence” is one we don’t and cannot answer, all we can do is to break it down and give you the facts. We can show you how the evidence wasn’t overwhelming, and where legal reasonable doubt exists.
      The point of this blog is to highlight how justice isn’t all people think it is, and when you’re stuck with bad lawyers, who do not do their job, you have no chance.
      Richard was (in effect) a pawn in a chess game, his guilt was assumed from the minute they released his mugshot, in a way they rigged it to ensure the only verdict was guilty, although the prosecution’s case was never vigorously tested in a way the law requires. Richard was denied due process and here we are determined to show how and why.

      As to why he never shouted his innocence from the rooftops, only he could truly answer that, and I am inclined to agree with Venning, that he,for whatever reason, took on the Night Stalker persona, at least for a time. He did try, from time to time, to explain or to highlight that he had not committed thee crimes.
      In his interview for the Israeli woman he said “The crimes they SAY I did”, and in his interview with Watkiss, he said he was railroaded and then “..they failed in their most important duty to report the truth in an unbiased and truthful manner” and “It is easier to convict and man with words than with evidence”. No one who interviewed him tried to open him up about his thoughts about what happened to him, and one imagines, his post-conviction lawyers held their breath every time he opened his mouth, in case something inappropriate came out of it. He didn’t seem to understand that the media would twist and edit everything he wanted to say.

      Possibly, he may have grasped the futility of it all, as he waited in vain for his appeals to be read. His last appeals finally made it into the long queue to be read by the Ninth Circuit, where his lawyers, at last, were hoping for an evidentiary hearing, where the new evidence could be presented. He died before that happened.

      This case isn’t a simple one, as you will have realised as you have read through all of our posts. We won’t tell you what to think, but hopefully, we have provided you with the tools to be able to decide for yourself if you think the story you’ve been told is credible or not.

      Thank you for commenting, we do appreciate it when our readers reach out.

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