The Kyle Incident: Truth Decay

*This post contains details of rape and sexual assault, which some may find upsetting*

Carol Kyle was raped, sexually assaulted, and robbed at gunpoint, by a man she described as a male Mexican, mid to late 20s between 5ft10 and 6ft, having medium length, black wavy hair, around 175 pounds, with a slight Spanish accent.  That initial description certainly fits with Richard Ramirez, doesn’t it? Until she gets to the teeth. 

They were straight and white. 

May/June 1985

From the 21st to 30th May Richard Ramirez was a very busy man, with dental appointments, travel to El Paso and back, after attending the first communion of his niece, and the brutal attack of two elderly sisters.

The horrific crime inflicted on Mabel Bell and Florence Lang is believed to have been carried out either late on 29th May or in the early hours of 30th, after which, he moved on to Carol Kyle’s house.


From Monrovia to Burbank, possible route taken.

One more double incident, a considerable distance apart, with twenty one miles between Carol Kyle’s house and the home of Mabel Bell and Florence Lang, fifteen miles between the Kneidings and the Khovananths, and no cross-contamination in either instance. The man who was having trouble taking care of his teeth, and who seemed to be mostly living in cars, was able to forensically scrub himself down and switch weapons, leaving not a trace of himself anywhere.


The Teeth Don’t Lie – or Do They?

If there is one thing, apart from the Night Stalker crimes, that Richard is known for, it is his teeth. They were not straight or white, a point law enforcement were at great lengths to emphasise and make known.  Even going so far as inspecting them, like a horse, and getting casts made after his arrest. It is interesting to note that the Netflix documentary skirts over what happened to Ms Kyle, possibly after making such a big thing about his teeth, it would draw attention to this rather large discrepancy.


Photograph snipe dated October 4th,1989 reads, “Richard Ramirez during the reading of his sentencing which was death on all counts.” The image ran in the newspaper on October 5th, 1989. Photo credit: Herald Examiner Collection, by Akili-Casundria Ramsess

What Happened?

On the 30th May 1985, at approx. 4am, Carol Kyle was woken in her Burbank home by a torch being shone in her face, and a small, dark, steel handgun pointed at her head.  A man said “Get up.  Don’t make any noise!”

The man told Kyle to move to the living room. She indicated that her son was in the house. They went to her son’s bedroom; the man turned on the light, waking up her son. He told both not to look at him, as he left the room and started ransacking the hall cupboard. Kyle was then handcuffed with her son, as the attacker shoved them both into the now emptied cupboard.  The man demanded money, jewellery, and a VCR. ( Taken from the Writ of Habeas Corpus, page 66)

When he appeared again, he was holding a different gun that was shiny. This is the first deviation from the original crime report, where there is no mention of a second gun.

He told them to move into her son’s room, where he made them sit on the floor. He then covered them both with a sheet, telling them not to look at him, else he would “gouge their eyes out”.  The man removed the handcuffs from Ms Kyle, and after putting her son back into the cupboard, took her to her bedroom.  (There are slight discrepancies between the court documents and the police crime report as to when the handcuffs were first used)


Crime report of Ms Kyle – document 20-3 (image is best viewed on a desktop)

The Assault of Carol Kyle

*this section details the rape and assault, which some may find upsetting*

The man tied Ms Kyle’s hands behind her back with pantyhose. He pushed her onto the bed, covered her head with a pillow, and screamed at her. He pounded on her back with his fist. Twice, he left the room and came back.

When the man returned for the second time, he removed the pillow and told her to lie down on her back on the bed. Her hands were still tied behind her back. The man ripped open the front of Kyle’s nightgown and removed her underpants. Kyle told the man she was having her period and had an infection. The man threatened to kill her. He took off his jacket, unzipped his pants, and started kissing her. The man got on top of her. He put his penis in her vagina. After a few minutes, he turned her over and put his penis in her anus; he ejaculated in her anus. (From the Writ of Habeas Corpus, outlining the prosecution’s case, page 66)

During this whole ordeal, Ms Kyle stated that her attacker did not put down the gun, the dark steel one, not the shiny one. It is unclear which gun she actually saw. No weapons used in any Night Stalker crimes were ever discovered in Richard’s possession.

After this, Ms Kyle spoke to her attacker for about fifteen to twenty minutes, in a very calm way, to her credit, as she must have been terrified and in pain.

The writ goes on to say:

“The man brought Kyle a robe because she was cold. He untied the pantyhose on her left wrist and later removed it altogether. He tried to tie her ankles with a telephone cord. The man said to her, “I don’t know why I’m letting you live. I’ve killed people before.” He told Kyle to tell police he wore a mask. He then brought Kyle’s son to her bedroom and handcuffed them to the bed. The man left handcuff keys on the mantle and told Kyle to make sure her daughter found them. In Kyle’s opinion, the man seemed confused, asking the name of the town and directions to the freeway. When the man left, Kyle thought his car sounded like a big, older car. Kyle’s son called 911; the police arrived within a few minutes after the call.” (Writ of Habeas Corpus, page 66)

Again, there are slight difference between the two documents, which probably occurs after subsequent interviews.


From the crime report taken by Burbank police. document 20-3 (image best viewed on a desktop)

Physical Evidence

Burbank Police Officer Ronald Cervenka was called to Kyle’s home about 6:25 a.m. on May 30th, 1985. He found the front door locked, but the back door by the kitchen was ajar. There was no sign of forced entry, and it appeared that entry was gained through the kitchen door, by reaching upwards through the dog door.  The house was ransacked. Ms Kyle and her son were still handcuffed. Officer Cervenka removed the cuffs with the key on the mantle and noted the handcuffs were larger than those used by police. He later took her to St. Joseph Medical Centre, where she was checked and a rape kit used.

We never hear about the results of the rape kit test, whereby, it must be assumed, that there was no match to Richard, otherwise they would have used it in court, and they did not.

Evidence technician Robert Cestaro collected handcuffs, keys, and women’s clothing from the bedroom in Ms Kyle’s home. Cestaro also dusted for latent fingerprints. None were found.

What she doesn’t mention is her attacker being covered in blood. Why would this matter? Because Ramirez was also accused (and later convicted) of the brutal attack on Mabel Bell and Florence Lang, before his arrival at her home, that same morning. The attack was bloody, he would have to have been spattered, his clothes, hair. Yet there is no mention of this, no transfer of blood from one crime scene to another. No serological evidence that Richard was at either location.

Eyewitness Identification

This is what she said:

“Kyle identified Petitioner [Ramirez] at trial as her assailant on May 30, 1985. His dress and hair were different than on [that date]. Kyle initially described the assailant as approximately 6 feet tall [she actually said 5’10” up to 6 feet], wearing a black leather jacket, black slacks, and black gloves. She told police that the assailant wore bangs, but had no facial hair. She said his hair was parted on the left across his face and appeared to be shiny and wavy. She said at first, she did not see the man’s face except from the side. Later, in her bedroom, she noticed his teeth were straight and white. He was very thin with prominent cheek bones. Kyle noticed his smile because he laughed several times when he spoke to her.”

Habeas Corpus pg. 67.


The forensic dentist saw something very different when he examined Richard’s teeth.

On September 13, 1985, Gerald Vale, a forensic dentist, also examined Petitioner at the Los Angeles County Jail. He found Petitioner’s teeth in very poor condition with advanced decay. A jagged gap was observed between Petitioner’s two front teeth, other teeth were missing. Photographs were taken of Petitioner’s teeth, showing stains and missing teeth. Dr. Vale also made casts of Petitioner’s teeth. In Dr. Vale’s opinion, Petitioner may have had recent dental work, including the replacement of a crown. The missing teeth may have been removed by a dentist. Petitioner’s gums had healed from the extractions.”

Habeas Corpus pg. 124.


The top photo shows Richard’s teeth when he was arrested and had his teeth examined. That took place in September 1985. The bottom picture is post sentencing in 1989, after restoration work finished.

On September 3, 1985, a dentist with the Sheriff Department, Alfred Otero, D.D.S., examined Petitioner’s teeth. He described Petitioner’s front teeth as stained, with nine decayed teeth. Petitioner indicated that he had no complaints. (174 RT 20352-53.) In January 1986, Dr. Otero treated Petitioner for tooth decay, performed a root canal, and restored Petitioner’s teeth with fillings. (Id. at 20354-58. -Habeas Corpus, pg 124.


Carol Kyle said she was sure his teeth were clean, straight and white because he spent time chatting, laughing, and smiling with her, after the attack.  If the man who attacked her had such good teeth, then that man could not have been Richard Ramirez. She assisted police artist, Fernando Ponce, with the preparation of a composite that was released on June 25th, showing the Latino male, with his side-parted hair, but not his white smile.  Nearly one month had passed since her attack.

Below is an image from the Los Angeles Herald Examiner that revealed Ramirez’s dental records. The “straight, white teeth”, so clearly seen by Carol Kyle, were never taken into account.


Carol Kyle’s first composite, released 25th June

Deputy Sheriff Coleman met with Carol Kyle on August 30th, 1985, at her residence. She assisted him with yet another composite, the reason remains unclear, because on this date, they finally had Richard’s mugshot and knew who they were looking for.  Deputy Sheriff Coleman insisted he had not seen the photograph of the suspect before the composite was executed. The two sketches look like two different people, and neither look anything like Richard Ramirez.


Released 30th August, 1985. “Clean, straight teeth and excessive gums”

Below is a section clipped from the above composite, listed are California penal codes: 261 is rape, 459 is burglary and 187 is murder.

Thankfully Ms Kyle did not suffer murder, however, this composite details that penal code. It is already decided that the man who attacked Carol, without evidence, or arrest, (that would happen the following morning) is the same man wanted for multiple homicides in other incidents.


Line-Up

The day after she helped create the latest composite, Richard Ramirez was arrested.  Ms Kyle saw him on TV numerous times and in the papers, however, she did not call the police to say this was the man who attacked her at gun point.  She said nothing until the police contacted her to attend the tainted live line-up on 5th September 1985, where she identified him “by the inflection in his voice”. Perhaps she was influenced by the two fingers being held up to the assembled audience by the police officers who were in attendance that day.  Richard was in place number two.  She identified him again at the preliminary hearing, after months of media exposure.

Carol Kyle had been informed by the police that the ‘Night Stalker’ would be present in the line-up


Witness card, document 20-3
Video evidence of victims being coached to choose suspect 2: Ramirez.

Identification of property

Kyle identified jewellery taken from her home at the police property
line-up on September 5th, 1985. She identified a bracelet, silver chain, earrings, necklaces, and a ring.

“A property line-up was held at the Los Angeles County Jail on
September 5, 1985 … Fewer than one-quarter of the approximately 1,500 items displayed at the line-up were identified by witnesses and victims.”

Habeas Corpus, pg. 117.

Richard’s Family in Texas

Sergeant Perry testified that, on September 3rd, 1985, he obtained two warrants through the El Paso courts to search the houses of Richard’s sister and parents. Before the warrants were executed, his parents, his sister Rosario, and brother Julian Jr., voluntarily met with Sergeant Perry at El Paso Police Department. They consented to having their homes searched. While at the police station, Rosario handed a pair of earrings and a bracelet. During a search of her home, she turned over a wooden box containing costume jewellery that had been given to her by her brother, Richard.

The Defence Malfunctions Again

What did they get right?  This:

“If the person who committed these crimes … had straight white teeth, the person was not Petitioner.”

Defence attorney, Ray Clark, Habeas Corpus, pg. 441.

During the 1986 preliminary hearing, the defence also questioned Ms Kyle’s failure to contact the police after seeing the suspect on TV numerous times, after his capture. Why, if she was so certain that he was the one who attacked her, did she wait?

“She [Kyle] was the first person who had more than a fleeting glance at her assailant during the commission of a crime to identify Ramirez in court … Arturo Hernandez, Ramirez’s co-counsel, questioned why the woman did not phone police after first seeing Ramirez’s photo on TV the day before his arrest last August. “She had seen this person (on TV) for several days … but she waited until she was contacted five or six days later.”

Journalist reporting on the 1986 hearing for the L.A. Times (pictured below)

Los Angeles Times April 1, 1986

THIS post examines the tainted line up procedure and how voice recognition is NOT a reliable form of identification, especially when coupled with weapon focus and extreme stress factors.  Had the defence had retained an expert witness, such as Dr Kathy Pezdek, the jury would have seen how unreliable the identification was.

“Carol Kyle first identified Ramirez at the live lineup and then subsequently at the Preliminary Hearing. However, she testified at the Preliminary Hearing that prior to attending the lineup, she had seen his picture in the newspaper and after the police identified him as the Night Stalker. She testified that in the days leading up to the lineup, she saw news reports “probably every day.”

Habeas Corpus, pg. 396.


The defence presented no evidence on Richard’s behalf except for the failed alibi, discussed in the Bell/Lang incident. This discredited alibi could have been explained that Julian Sr had mistaken his dates, due to media pressure, stress, and the passage of time.

Not only did they fail to do this, they actually presented the alibi again as defence, when uncontroverted evidence from a Los Angeles dental office established that he was in Los Angeles on May 30th, 1985. This moment would have been better served had they mentioned his teeth, emphasising to the jury the disparity between the eyewitness testimony and the reality of Ramirez’s dental records.

Philip Carlo in the book The Night Stalker: The Life and Crimes of Richard Ramirez, stated that Sergeant John Yarbrough from the Night Stalker Task Force, testified that the clock at the crime scene of sisters Florence Lang and Mabel Bell had been ripped from it’s electrical socket at 5.29am, indicating that the attack was in progress at that time. Carol Kyle said she was woken at 4am, and that her son called the police around 6.20am. So how could Ramirez be in two places at once?

 We know Richard was present in El Paso for his niece’s communion party and the chart below shows his possible movements during the dates in question.

Richard pictured with his niece, Jennifer, and his parents in May 1985.

Dental appointments and possible movements during May/June 1985

In an effort to challenge the identification of jewellery found at Rosario’s home, defence counsel argued but failed to present evidence supporting the contention that the recovered jewellery was not unique and lacked distinctive characteristics.  They failed to investigate the numerous other individuals who were involved with burglaries with Ramirez and failed to examine the trail of stolen property changing hands in and around the bus depot and at Felipe Solano’s, later impeached for perjury. Nor did they efficiently cross-examine Carol Kyle over the features of her attacker, detailed in two police sketches; or draw attention to the possibility of contamination of her testimony due to multiple points of contact with law enforcement, providing numerous opportunities for her original statement to be changed.

The prosecution urged conviction because of the similarities to the Dickman incident.  Below is a summary of the findings of expert witness and criminologist, Steve Strong.

Dickman Incident

  • No fingerprints belonging to Richard
  • Inconsistent eyewitness testimony (she changed it)
  • Trail of stolen property not questioned
  • No serology
  • Failed to recognise him on TV as the man who attacked her, even after seeing him numerous times

Kyle Incident

  • No fingerprints belonging to Richard
  • Unreliable eyewitness testimony
  • Trail of stolen property not questioned
  • No serology
  • Saw him on TV but did not call the police. 

In Conclusion

Richard Ramirez was found guilty of the rape and burglary, even though no physical evidence that he was the perpetrator was found.  He was convicted because of the “spill-over” from both the Dickman and Bell/Lang incidents, the jewellery, and an unreliable witness testimony; he had at various times been described by other eyewitnesses as blonde, Asian, short, and Caucasian.


A competent defence, as a last resort, could have fallen back on his mental health, in mitigation, at penalty phase.  However, as we have shown, Richard was denied effective assistance of counsel, in violation of his constitutional rights, and was failed in every way, by a defence team whose duty it was to develop a strategy, challenge, and test the prosecution’s case.

The job of the prosecutors was to prove guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt. They did not.


57 responses to “The Kyle Incident: Truth Decay”

  1. Unless Richard was able to change his appearance at will, there’s no way he raped Carol Kyle. If he killed Bell & Lang and then went to Kyle’s, he would have
    had blood on his clothes and shoes. Carol would have noticed, after all she noticed the straight, white teeth. Apparently all the “hoopla” about the broken, discolored teeth just didn’t seem to apply to this case. The more you dig into this case, the more ridiculous and absurd it gets. All these details that supposedly intelligent people just seemingly overlooked.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. He seems to have shape-shifted at will, going from a blond-haired, 5ft 9, 220lb man, to a 5ft 7 Asian, to a 5ft 8 – 6ft1 Latino, with Hollywood veneers, or not. There’s no physical evidence, so they believe varying descriptions without question? It’s a shame that the alternate jurors/jurors, who noted these obvious discrepancies, didn’t kick up a fuss at the time.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Yes. It’s so ridiculous. The discrepancies in his appearance should have been a red flag to the jurors. The only thing I can come up with as to why they just seemed to overlook all of the discrepancies and lack of evidence is because they were biased and already thought he was guilty. As we know, his jury was a jury of volunteers. They were on the jury because they wanted to be. It’s sickening and sad.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. As you know, some of the jurors and alternates DID notice the discrepancies, but sadly, still gave the guilty vote, having not received any defence evidence to consider. How many of them stated that in their declarations afterwards? Too many! They were even saying “I’d never hire them to defend me” and “It was obvious the defence didn’t know what they were doing”. As for this particular incident, lack of serology and those damn white teeth should have been enough. Had the motion to sever been granted, it would have looked completely different.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Yes, some of the juror statements were so contradictory. It makes no sense that they voted guilty and then for a death sentence considering that some of them spoke of how terrible the defense was and how they didn’t think the trial was fair. How can you vote guilty if you think the trial wasn’t fair? I really don’t get that!

        Liked by 1 person

      4. I find it quite mind blowing, actually, and very disturbing. It’s all down to money, which gets you a decent lawyer! Knowing that something was very wrong, and yet still voting guilt/death? And it still happens, evidence falsified, people sent to be executed because wrongful convictions. They usually have one major thing in common; they are poor.

        Liked by 2 people

  2. donnaluvsrichie Avatar
    donnaluvsrichie

    I don’t see where any of the rape kit results from any of the victims were used so that tells me that they knew all along they had the wrong man and still pressed on for the convictions.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Negative results and results not given, so you can bet your life, IF they had been conclusive, we would not even be having this conversation. This case is one where pubic hair and serology results do not seem to match the man who was convicted. Which ever way it is spun, that should have been enough to argue “reasonable doubt”, you would think. Not in this case.

      Liked by 3 people

  3. About the handcuffs and handcuff key. Back in the 80s I had novelty sets just like the police have. They were very common, everyone I knew had them. They were like an accessory to most Rockers.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. The handcuffs themselves, don’t prove anything, if the evidence he was at either location (Bell/Lang and Kyle) isn’t there and they can’t even prove he ever had those particular cuffs. They relied on an unreliable eyewitness and “spill over” from the other crimes, to catch a conviction. I am working on a post about the joinder of the incidents and the “spill over” effect, at the moment. The whole Occult/Satanism = rock music, is just so 80s, isn’t it? I remember the handcuffs, too.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. Can you add a link to the Writ of Habeus Corpus so people can read it themselves? I can’t find it on the internet.

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    1. Writ of Habeas Corpus
      Here you are, you need to go to document 14 for the main body of the writ. There you will find the prosecution case, keep reading past the first 100 pages. There are nearly 1000 pages, including the other attachments, which you can access. The other attached documents are important, there are many of them, you will see how we have referred to them in our posts. Sadly, some others are sealed and they won’t release them. We’ve tried..

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Dear Jay, I just want to thank you and all other teammates (I read mainly your articles) for the wonderful job you’re doing. Clever and brave to mension things everybody seemed to be blind to see.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Hello Lusine, thank for your comment, we greatly appreciate you taking the time to reach out to us. We are more than happy to try and answer any questions you might have or to direct you to articles we’ve written if we’ve answered them there. Thank you for reading. ~ Jay ~

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Discovering your blog was a treasure for me, a fresh air. The only problem for me is – I can not communicate with you the way I want because of my English being not the greatest of all time…I have a little language barrier, which almost does not bother me while reading, but bothers while writing.
        Since when I’ve got into Ramirez’s case, it was very strange for me, like no MO, no pattern, no victim type, no prefered weapon etc. How could this be? From the very begining it seemed to me like different persons’ crimes. Unfortunately, everyone I would ask and mention about this strangeness, would just say that I’m trying to whitewash R. Ramirez, because I’m attracted to him. I don’t know why everyone should focus their attention only on this «gruppie» thing, when there are so many things worth mentioning and to think about; for example this many trial gaps. Your blog is unique; I’m happy to see competent persons doing investigations, that help me overcome my doubts and take one step more to see the truth, as much as it’s possible. I’m recomending and sharing this page to everyone and everybody, who is interested in Ramirez. Hope they can do more, then just watching sexualized shorts about him.
        Thank you again!

        Liked by 2 people

      2. We ignore all talk of whitewashing because of how he looked, it is a lazy argument; Richard Ramirez could not help his face. Whatever he looked liked, the trial was still a travesty. Lots seem to get off on the idea of his guilt and that is their problem. I don’t know how much you’ve read on here, but to understand why he was convicted on such flimsy evidence, I recommend you read the three posts about his defence team. There you can see what happens to defendants who are too poor to hire decent attorneys, and how Richard was left without a competent defence for four years. This is the shocking reality of this case. That the biggest trial of the 80’s was blighted from the beginning, and how he never stood a chance. Had he been a rich man it’s doubtful this would ever had got to trial. That’s what money buys you; your freedom and your life. I still have not finished with those pathetic lawyers, there is more information about them coming up. Everything you see here is backed up by legal documents and original crime reports, and we won’t do it any other way.

        Liked by 3 people

      3. I’ve read a few articles about his attorneys lame work. I also have read a document “Ramirez V people” or smt (O don’t remember the title exactly). From how much I could understand, Ramirez declined hiring another attorney. I may be mistaking. Anyway, it’s obvious that he had some mental, lob problem and qas not able to competently assistant attorneys or defend himself. He mean it, when he said in an interview that he didn’t care much about himself. He was clearly an “easy victim”. Correct me, if I got something wrong.

        Also, what annoys me so much is everybody’s attention focusing so much on idolatresses. Every Time you open your mouth to say something about investigation, there just like “You’re a gruppie!”. Come on guys! We got, that there were groupies, what’s next? It seems to me that media focused attention on that thing on purpose, kind of brainwashing.i remember watching am interview with Nikolas Schrek, who was Ramirez’s ehhh…friend…in which he says: women are romanticising and idolising him, whitewashing him, some idiots even try to convince that he was framed, when he did all the crimes and even more. It’s the only answer they slap to your face, like you don’t have a brain, just ovaries. I think that it’s more like whitewashing their own actions by diverting everybody’s attention, who can find these logical “gaps” in the trial.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Ramirez was a bit of a nightmare with his attorneys, and was manipulated into ditching his free public defenders in favour of the Hernandezes, but he also cast aside another private attorney. All three had wanted him to have a psychological evaluation, but were prevented from doing so.

        The Hernandezes were keen to hold onto the case as they wanted a cut of the money from potential film and book deals, and so kept his mental health a secret. Partly because the psychological evaluations would have revealed his bad childhood, which means the family are dragged through the courts to explain (no family support = no money), and partly because a mentally ill killer diminishes the marketability. It would ruin the ‘bad boy psycho’ narrative if he was revealed to be a very unwell and brain damaged person. It would then highlight the miscarriage of justice.

        Yes, people can be patronising to women. We’ve even had people assume this blog is written by a boy, because they can’t fathom that females can write intelligently and analyse a court case. The groupie accusation doesn’t really work when you’re questioning the case, because the whole ‘Ramirez Groupie’ thing hinges on being aroused by criminality.

        Liked by 3 people

      5. I can only tell that’s very sad, cause it shows how carrupt the system is in every country. like, in my country people think that only our cops are acting lame and aggressive, and USA is the country of pure justice. But some examples, like this, show a much darker side. Also I can’t find any other blog or articles like your on the internet.i don’t know why? Is ot my poor searching skills?

        Like

      6. Ha ha! Neither can we. I don’t think this case have even been broken down so thoroughly before using original documents. Most prefer the accepted story, without realising that Ramirez was denied a fair trial, and the right to effective counsel. We are just showing what happened to him. In the comments here I put a link to the 2008 Writ.

        Like

      7. A boy in his mother’s basement, if I recall? All three of us.

        Like

  6. It would sound funny, if wasn’t so sad. Arresting people on that kind of evidences??
    Amd, DNA didn’t match in any cases, but it didn’t matter, it was Ramirez; maybe DNA is not that important. BUT 100 years later they somehow found his DNA near the murder place, and it was him, no doubt – DNA is 100% right answer!
    That’s just wrong

    Liked by 2 people

    1. DNA was in it’s infancy in 85, but the first case brought to trial using it was 86 in the UK. Ramirez went to trial in 89, and so you would think they could have used it, no? The PGM markers they used instead, tended to exclude him. A semen sample at the Abowath crime scene and the unidentified blood found at both the Bennett and Cannon crime scenes did not match him or the victims. More info on DNA can be found in the article Venning and I wrote about Mei Leung.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I will read the article about Mei Leung soon. I don’t believe that case being competent either, cause 1.Too many years have passed for DNA piece to be reliable and 2. Again no Modus operandi, never killed children, again seems like some others criminals job.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. At the end of that (very long) article I leave a title of a book about the uses of DNA within the criminal justice system. You may find it interesting.

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      3. Thank you once again. And keep up this good job!

        Liked by 2 people

  7. I will read it, when I’ll have time; thank you.
    I just can’t believe people can accept this story, cause there are so many questionable dots there, some things are really absurd: for example that AC/DC cap. So, If I listen to Rammstein, somewhere someone murders people in a Rammstein T-shirt, there are going after me?? That’s just ridiculous. I’ve noticed many questionable moments, even though I’m a philologist, I can’t believe people, who can have education in closer field, can not see and write about this on the internet.

    Like

    1. Yeah, the AC/DC cap is circumstantial at best. Weirdly, a month after Ramirez was caught, another murder took place in Orange County. The killer wore an AC/DC cap… they were on tour that autumn and their merchandise must have been everywhere.

      Liked by 3 people

  8. hi I’m new to this blog I’ve been reading your blog like over 10 times so I guess not really new. But i just wanted to share that with you that you guys did a truly amazing investigation. Not just by reading your works but in my heart I truly believe RR was innocent and set up by the cops and all of those bums! But plz don’t judge me for my opinion.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hi Sarah, thank you for your comment, it means a lot to us that you’ve read what we have to say.
      We would never judge you for coming to the conclusion you have, given what we’ve shared. So much was hidden or not handled correctly, it definitely needs to be talked about.
      Thanks again for reading.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. thnx for not judging. I just got scared to involve myself with you guys cuz I’m literally getting bullied online like many other just for defending RR. Like I’m never ever gonna Stop defending RR but it’s crazy how much of Gil’s lies of RR ppl are believing.

        Like

      2. No one will bully you here, I promise you.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. Sorry this is happening to you. People do become strangely aggressive when people question a long-standing and official narrative. Plus it ruins their sexual fantasies, so that’s another aspect!

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Ha ha! Yeah, the sexual fantasies must not be tainted.

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      5. People roar when their fantasies are removed! And I’m not exclusively talking about Richard haha.

        Liked by 1 person

      6. “I don’t condone.. but phwoooar, those cheekbones”.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. but in the end I will forever defend Richard. You guys are honestly doing such amazing work. And I happy you guys are doing this for Richard. I’m so tired of the lies and people defending the lies! I’m in a similar situation with my uncle and my uncle has brain damage and his wife is well like the cops in Richard’s case spreading lies about my family and I and threatening my uncle and abusing my little cousins. Hearing about Richard’s case makes me want to defend all people no matter the race or gender or who they are. I want to help Richard and people who are in the same situation as RR! RR deserves love and happiness!

        Liked by 1 person

      8. There are too many unsafe cases, even as recently as February, when Ivan Cantu was executed. The State of Texas ignored exculpatory evidence and denied a retrial. Then there’s the awful case of Carlos DeLuna – the list goes on. I am sorry you have these struggles in your life to deal with.

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  9. hi I’m new to this blog I’ve been reading your blog like over 10 times so I guess not really new. But i just wanted to share that with you that you guys did a truly amazing investigation. Not just by reading your works but in my heart I truly believe RR was innocent and set up by the cops and all of those bums! But plz don’t judge me for my opinion. 

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  10. idk y my comment came 2 times but other then that I’m just tired of all the lies that GIL is spreading and getting credit for! RIP RR I truly feel so sad for RR. Just reading your blog about him makes me so sad and literally cry. I don’t even want to think of what he went through in prison. Great investigation! I’m tired of all the lies said about him! Like some ppl literally are bullying me and harassing me just for defending RR.

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    1. I am sorry you’re getting bullied, it usually comes from a place of ignorance, from people who only know the case from Netflix/YouTube/Carlo and Carrillo.
      There’s been nearly 40 years of misinformation, so it’s an uphill struggle to come out and show that we were not told the whole truth about the case.

      Ramirez is still used to make money for others, and still the lies come.
      So much is still uncertain, but what IS certain is that he never got a fair trial.

      These investigations have taken us years and we stand by what we’ve said.
      You can come here and talk/ask questions without fear.

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      1. I just don’t get it why are people just using him for their gain?! Like the poor guy needed help! Someone to support him be loyal to him, believe in him! Love & happiness to be his real friend! He’s never even been given that in his life! Why are ppl so cruel to those in need?! GIL HONESTLY MAKES ME SICK! And ppl see Gil as a hero?! Plz give me a break!

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      2. He makes them money, it’s as simple as that.

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      3. keep up the great investigation! & can’t wait for your guy’s book! RIP RR

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      4. The book should be out before too long.

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      5. It bothers me that he is lauded as a hero when he admits to multiple instances of police misconduct on camera. And people will overlook it because he ‘caught a serial killer’. But most people don’t know half of the truth, the police statements and his nonsensical theories.

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  11. wow didn’t know it was humanly possible to change you appearance to something totally different! There’s absolutely no way RR did this crime. That “straight white teeth” is a big give away that it’s not RR but someone else maybe another mexican but definitely not Richard.

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    1. Yep, and there are plenty of Latinos/Hispanics in Los Angeles! Back then, they were about 30% of the population. The other thing is that the Bell and Lang attack possibly occurred simultaneously…

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      1. Exactly! So many Latin people and yes they only thought of Richard as the only Latino or Latino Criminal. Nothing makes sense how could he get from this place to that place etc…. That’s just scientifically impossible. It makes no sense at all.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Not only is he a shapeshifter but he can teleport. Must have had help from Satan 😉

        Liked by 2 people

      3. Dude we are definitely in a marvel movie also I would love to teleport! 😂

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  12. what my question is, is how long can Gil keep up with this “narrative” that’s what I want to know! I mean he can’t really continue with this bs, I believe at some point he will crack! But then again he admitted to a lot of things and people don’t wanna take it seriously they just ignore it! I truly believe the truth can’t be hidden forever. And I really think after your book this case can be openly discussed I hope! Cuz I don’t think these lies can go on for much longer it’s already been what 40 years I think? How munch longer can the lies last for before someone breaks

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    1. It will go on for as long as people listen, and as long as these podcasts and documentaries keep airing. There’s that two-part NBC doc coming out, plus Carrillo is a script consultant on an 8 part series, too.
      He’s all over this, like a massive spider spinning a web.
      All of his unproven theories taken as gospel and it’s always going to be like this.
      He’s found a captive audience, one that doesn’t question or stop to wonder why some things just don’t add up.
      The intricacies of the Avia sole patterns aren’t known about, you know because we’ve shown you; not many others look deeply. They’re in it for “shock and gore” or “sex and Satan”, no one else is studying police/crime/forensic reports. It’s the way things are.
      I hope one day that will change.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. That’s so ridiculous! But still I don’t believe it will last I can’t lies die in the end and truth come that’s just what I believe but at the same time I totally get what you’re saying! But I truly believe and pray your. Ok will change things even if it’s a little! Have faith this book is not out there for no reason! Richard said he’ll be avenged and I believe this book and blog is exactly that!

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  13. what I say to myself is you can ruin a lot with a lie but you can never defeat it. The truth eventually will come out of the hiding and your book and this blog is just part of it and a very good start!

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  14. but you can always defeat it with the truth*

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  15. plus there is way too much to talk about this case like
    why in the original statement victims described a suspect that looks nothing like Richard
    some victims even claimed they believe Richard want the attacker
    some crimes were even committed at the same time so how can Richard be at two places at once?
    why did they “lose” the him claimed to be a murder weapon?
    how come so many other potential suspects were not investigated but given immunity?
    also if Richard was the night stalker there wouldn’t have to be any cops coaching the victims into picking him! And so much more! Simon sure and one point people will hopefully start to question this case! Especially about those damn avias that were NOT PROVEN to be Richard’s! Guilty before setting foot in trial is ridiculous.

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